Tenant has abandoned property

[AccidentalLandlord1]

Hi everyone. My tenant of 5 years has abandoned my property today. She text me to say that due to a change in circumstances, she has left the property and has posted the keys through the door and the stuff she has left behind can either be thrown away or kept. I went to check and she has left her all her furniture such as beds, wardrobes, etc. She had always paid her rent on time so admittedly I'd become a bit laid back with checking but I checked today and she has not paid rent for the last 2 months and she missed a payment in October last year too. She also had the cheek to give me her bank details to give her deposit back...! Where do I stand with getting missed rent back from this tenant? I have no idea where she has gone and she seems to of now blocked my number. I am an accidental landlord as you can tell from my username and also rather stupidly did not protect her deposit. Does this mean I have to give it back?! Even if she owes rent. Help desperately needed...

[ropeycorn]

@LovingACountryBoy

This is clearly a wind up.

The OP knows that mumsnet hates landlords. This is ‘wind them up and watch them go.’

Marx hated them the most ! i.e landlords are the worst.

“The capitalist is the direct exploiter of the workers, not only the direct appropriator, but the direct creator of surplus-labour. But since (for the industrial capitalist) this can only take place through and in the process of production, he is himself a functionary of this production, its director. The landlord, on the other hand, has a claim – through landed property (to absolute rent) and because of the physical differences of the various types of land (differential rent) – which enables him to pocket a part of this surplus-labour or surplus-value, to whose direction and creation he contributes nothing. Where there is a conflict, therefore, the capitalist regards him as a mere superfetation, a Sybarite excrescence, a parasite on capitalist production, the louse that sits upon him.” (Theories of Surplus-Value, vol.2, p.328)

[LakieLady]

@OldFan

I don't even know what this protected deposit thing is, and I private rented for a long time, and knew many people who did.

Never heard of anyone's deposit being protected. At the end of your stay they decided whether they were happy with the condition of the property and based on that you got some or all of your deposit back.

Obviously if you did a runner you probably didn't get anything back, and not if you owed rent either.

The last time I private rented was 2014. Have things really changed that much?

I suppose nowadays with the internet etc, tenants can read more about their rights and stuff.

It's been a requirement since approx 2007.

They also have to provide gas and electrical safety certificates, energy performance certificates showing a minimum rating of E (reducing to D and then C over the next few years), smoke detectors and CO monitors.

[prh47bridge]

@Sosbanfachtheresatellyinmybath

I wish I'd known about this. When I left my previous home due to DV, my landlord refused to give me my deposit back. It's been over a year now so no chance of getting that back 😕

You can still get it back. You can still take legal action against the landlord for return of your deposit. If they didn't protect your deposit, you can take action against them for that as well.

[LakieLady]

@OldFan

These government-backed schemes ensure your tenants will get their deposit back if they:

meet the terms of your tenancy agreement
do not damage the property
pay the rent and bills

The deposit must be returned to your tenants within 10 days of you both agreeing how much they’ll get back.

www.gov.uk/deposit-protection-schemes-and-landlords

I.e. the landlord still decides how much (if anything) the person gets back, based on what the tenant's done or failed to do.
--
But obviously if OP hasn't done the basics such as safety checks a disgruntled ex-tenant could dob her in I guess..

Which is exactly the case here.

The OP is lucky she's not facing a big fine for the lack of a GSC for 4 out of the last 5 years.

[Redebs]

@ropeycorn Marx said that's what capitalists think of landlords. Sounds like the hate comes from them having an actual commodity (property) to profit from, rather than just taking a direct cut of the workers' labour.

[LakieLady]

@ladyofshertonabbas

People making much of the deposit scheme- has anyone used it to successfully get back 3x deposit? It sounded pretty useless when introduced tbh.

I've helped several tenants do it.

One LL not only had to pay back 3 x £1,200 to one family, he got a £5k fine for not having a GSC.

[Redebs]

Penalty for not putting deposit into a protected scheme is up to 3x deposit, plus legal costs.
Penalty for not getting gas safety certificate every 10-12 monthis is up to £6000 and/or six months in prison.

Suggest OP gives deposit back in full immediately and does it right with any future tenants.

[Itsneverwhatitseems]

Here’s an interesting article
It seems the tenant has not officially terminated their tenancy just by telling you they’ve left so are liable for rent until they do so
You are losing rent as
you have not had time to find a new tenant
you have to spend time and money clearing the flat
they have missed the last two months rent

You could point out the facts from the attached article and send them a bill for all of your costs, future missed rent and their past missed rent or threaten court action if they fail to pay.
Send them a text and write a letter to the only address you have for them ie your property. Keep copies.
Ask for a forwarding address also.

[Franceen]

Deposits are protected by statute law. There is no choice. It is never the landlords' money. To keep it is an act f theft.

Renting is a very serious matter and is taken seriously by law and courts.

[LIZS]

Bet there will be utility debts outstanding too - an expensive lesson for op but possibly not as much as it could be. Pp raise a reasonable concern as to the welfare of the ex tenant and child though. Presumably she needs no reference. Are you certain the message was from her?

[YetMoreNewBeginnings]

@ladyofshertonabbas

People making much of the deposit scheme- has anyone used it to successfully get back 3x deposit? It sounded pretty useless when introduced tbh.

My tenants used it on their previous LL.

I know a couple of shit LL’s who got caught out by assuming tenants wouldn’t dare try it. It was highly amusing to see their piss taking, corner cutting shit landlording finally trip them up.

[dawngreen]

She basically did a runner knowing she owed rent. Now you should sell all the stuff she left. I would assume the deposit you would keep to cover the costs of clearing the junk she left from the property plus the 3 months rent she owes you. I doubt she would push more for the deposit if you remind her she owes you 3 months rent. And in future get the legal issues in place regarding deposits.

[YetMoreNewBeginnings]

@Itsneverwhatitseems

Here’s an interesting article
It seems the tenant has not officially terminated their tenancy just by telling you they’ve left so are liable for rent until they do so
You are losing rent as
you have not had time to find a new tenant
you have to spend time and money clearing the flat
they have missed the last two months rent

You could point out the facts from the attached article and send them a bill for all of your costs, future missed rent and their past missed rent or threaten court action if they fail to pay.
Send them a text and write a letter to the only address you have for them ie your property. Keep copies.
Ask for a forwarding address also.

The OP would be very foolish to threaten court action for anything when it appears they’ve not carried out gas checks for the duration of the tenancy.

That’s a criminal offence that can lead to prison time…

[Itsneverwhatitseems]

@YetMoreNewBeginnings

The OP would be very foolish to threaten court action for anything when it appears they’ve not carried out gas checks for the duration of the tenancy.

That’s a criminal offence that can lead to prison time…

Yes I do get that.
But it’s important to know all the facts.

[Thoughtful2355]

sorry but if you are an accidental landlord then you SHOULD have used a agency. There are laws in property and you were stupid enough to not abide by them.

[MistyMountainTop]

My ex-MIL has become an accidental landlord. She moved into my SIL's house, leaving her house empty but pretty soon she needed more care than SIL could do (night time). Social services expected MILs house to be rented out or sold to pay for it. It couldn't be sold because MIL has lost capacity and there is no PoA in place and the courts are taking ages to put the legal stuff in place

[Sosbanfachtheresatellyinmybath]

@prh47bridge

You can still get it back. You can still take legal action against the landlord for return of your deposit. If they didn't protect your deposit, you can take action against them for that as well.

He didn't protect it and I really can't afford to take legal action unfortunately. He's not the type to mess with and wouldn't want to put myself and my family in a vulnerable position after what we've previously been through.

[Intergalacticcatharsis]

Honestly if my tenant with young child did this I would be really worried about her! She may have blocked you to keep safe?

I don’t think you are cut out to be a landlord. She has left the property in good order - I think you should return deposit clearly marked as reference deposit and property postcode and sell the place asap. Or educate yourself on what all the legal implications are of being a landlord. Hope you did a self assessment tax return?

[bellabasset]

There are two issues here, your responsibility as a LL and her responsibility as a tenant.

So what I would in your situation would be to confirm in writing that she wants you to dispose of her belongings, inform her of the amount of rent she owes and say that her deposit covers part of that debt. If she accepts that then fine. But I doubt she will so I'd repay it and say you've passed her debt to a debt collector and do that.

The LL's deposit wasn't protected, did you have LL's insurance in place, did you carry out the safety checks etc. You've saved on costs you should have incurred is the way to look at it. If you decide to rent again not only have rents increased but so has the value of property.

We were defrauded and lost a lot of money but were fortunate to be able to pursue a legal claim, it went to a week's trial, barristers, experts, the costs were taxed so don't put yourself in a situation where you get involved in litigation

[Franceen]

What does "accidental landlord" mean? If you do not know about the serious approach required to Deposits - I could deduce you have not rented according to law and Rental Agreements Contracts etc. A, am I right ?
I can then deduce you have not declared your rent as an income. This is a criminal offence.

If you have not done things properly - all you can do is find the womans contact and tell her you will keep the deposit for rent owed. Then sort the difference. Do not commit to anything.
Get her to say again in writing re her property. Tell her (do not ask) she has until xxxxxx date to collect property, by arrangement - the day after the property will be removed.
Do not mention anything else about your plans etc. Just be a matter of fact about it.

Do not harp on about the past.
Just say:
I am sorry you chose to leave without any warning to me. You owe the following rent, xxxdates... I have xxxx deposit money... I will deduct xxx from xxx.
Your property can not remain in the my home. Please tell me what you would like to happen, in any case I will give you til xxx date to collect.

TENANTS HAVE RIGHTS. ONLY A COURT CAN EVICT A TENANT. Unless they go by own choice. You must get in writing exactly what she is doing.
End of tenancy will be according to a set date in your agreement it is not for you to choose a random date that she is gone.

[ropeycorn]

@Redebs

@ropeycorn Marx said that's what capitalists think of landlords. Sounds like the hate comes from them having an actual commodity (property) to profit from, rather than just taking a direct cut of the workers' labour.

The point being is the industrialist creates wealth through innovation and the use of capital to create more using the worker to achieve that end. The landlord just sweats an existing 'dead' i.e already created asset to extract rent from that worker who requires a roof over their head as a basic necessity. It's a great tragedy that house prices and the rise of the BTL landlord has diverted so much energy and capital away from productive investment in this country and participated in creating such horrendous inequality amongst the younger generation with access to housing. I'm afraid landlords will just have to suck up the fact that society particularly the younger generation doesn't like them and never will I'm sure Landlordzone or Property Tribes can help them with that !

[Intergalacticcatharsis]

These types of posts make me think there should be a formal online register of landlords. ID number, tax reference, gas and electrical certificates, yearly confirmation by landlord that property is in good state of repair etc.

[dogpoobin]

@dawngreen

She basically did a runner knowing she owed rent. Now you should sell all the stuff she left. I would assume the deposit you would keep to cover the costs of clearing the junk she left from the property plus the 3 months rent she owes you. I doubt she would push more for the deposit if you remind her she owes you 3 months rent. And in future get the legal issues in place regarding deposits.

The tenant could take legal action against the OP for not protecting her deposit, and OP could be made to pay her 3 times the deposit amount in compensation.

If I were OP I'd be returning the deposit swiftly and hoping the tenant doesn't research the legalities around deposit protection!

[dogpoobin]

@Redebs

Penalty for not putting deposit into a protected scheme is up to 3x deposit, plus legal costs.
Penalty for not getting gas safety certificate every 10-12 monthis is up to £6000 and/or six months in prison.

Suggest OP gives deposit back in full immediately and does it right with any future tenants.

All of this!

[Treacletoots]

Don't get rid of her stuff. She can sue you if you dispose of it. Yes really

Just give her the deposit back and hope to god she doesn't sue you because landlords, almost never win, even when they're in the right, nevermind when they've flagrantly ignored the basic requirements of a landlord like you have.

Yes, I'm an accidental landlord, and to all those people who say it's a choice, yes it NOW is a choice, not to turf out my lovely tenants and their 3 young children, just to satisfy some socialist agenda that people should only have one house.

I originally rented the house out when I moved in with my partner following divorce, clueless, but still managed to read up and comply with all the required regulations, and still do to this day. Because I have a responsibility to my tenants and I don't take that lightly. It's also the reason I refuse to turf them out and have only raised the rent once in 5 years. If they choose to move though, I will sell the property, thanks to the utterly shambolic legislation and continued attacks to landlords from the government, but not until they decide to move.