To be so drained and fed up of constant electronic forms and passwords and apps?

[Bananabreadandcupofcoffeethanks]

Hate it so much I can't express it. Nothing works right for me, you need a fairly recent smartphone for apps to work for example.

Then with electronic forms. Fuck me. I'm trying to fill in a whole complicated form for an appointment and cannot get the 'electronically fillable' form to work. So now I have to print it, and hope the printer works, and then take a photo and scan or something.

I don't have the energy to do this now. It is now a whole multi step process with lots of little bits to get the task done.

I just fucking hate it all when it comes to appointments and job applications and whatnot, and then everything needing an app, or an account with a password that needs xyz to meet criteria.

God needed to get that off my chest.

I am very old and obviously agree with all you young whippersnappers it drives me nuts! However I am quite naughty and I once used the password PI550FF it was accepted!

This is a really good point. Shops are turning us in to part of their computer processes but it makes us miserable because humans are social creatures and doing a lot of tasks alone makes us miserable, we’re evolved to work happier and better in groups (because we survive better in groups).

I also really resent how shops cut costs by making us do loads of their processes for us, as call centres turn into automated apps and supermarkets fire their staff and use us to check out instead (all the while constantly squarking “unexpected item in bagging area” because their IT is glitchy). Don’t pass on the cost savings though do they.

Signed up to two this weekend. One to buy some seeds online and one to buy a drill. The seed one is beyond useless. I'm sure they think they are progressive and modern but it has had the completely opposite effect in that it's deleted now and they have lost a new customer. Back to local garden center for us. Shouldn't have left them really. There is a serious risk that if you get it wrong you lose business and plenty really do get it wrong.

I also really resent how shops cut costs by making us do loads of their processes for us, as call centres turn into automated apps and supermarkets fire their staff and use us to check out instead (all the while constantly squarking “unexpected item in bagging area” because their IT is glitchy). Don’t pass on the cost savings though do they.

This. I refuse to use the self checkouts (luckily the supermarket I use has lots of actual people working on the checkouts). I'm paying a fortune for groceries, I don't see why I should have to do all the work as well.

Work accounts need securing. Passwords are a bit "old hat" now.

A text message could be sent out - but SMS isn't as secure as it could be - see SIM swapping.

So an authenticator app is needed to secure the account.

Alternatives would be to only allow logins from certain IP addresses - which would make WFH just that bit more difficult.

Employees need to play their part in keeping systems secure. I know it's another app though.

mumof2many in a fit of vexation at being forced to use a clunky app to prebook at the local leisure centre, I gave myself the user name "sodonlinebooking". Years later, every time I rock up for a swim and they say "What name?" I have to mutter "Sodonlinebooking" as I slink off to change...😳

I struggle as to why employers can effectively co-op your personal phone though. I don’t mind using authenticator app, but I have a corporate mobile.

Most employees are not entitled to a phone so need to use their own.

I know

But if work phones aren't provided, then there is little other option to secure a work login. Unless it was from a specific IP address. Which could cause issues for people who are WFH.

And work logins need securing

I struggle as to why employers can effectively co-op your personal phone though.

Grown up 2FA (really we've moved on, and the modern approach is "conditional access") should always offer a variety of channels. Which usually heads off bolshie employees.

SMS to a personal phone is actually more secure than to a corporate number in a corporate setting.

There are also authenticator fobs (although they can be a bit pricey and locked-in). Backup codes. And emails to recovery addresses.

Personally I find an awful lot of "security" is really just theatre. Intended to look impressive and shut the natives up, but in real terms rather superficial.

Yes, and this is a bugger for small app developers.

My company developed an app for which the most basic photos would be perfectly adequate, but we were constantly fighting poor WiFi speeds with users, image compression and storage.

And it all adds up to a billion and one backed up images that you need to manage or pay to store.

I'd happily dump 90% of the camera features and functions for a 60% cheaper phone. Skateboard mad relative uses them to produce some amazing videos that would have needs an entire media lab 15 years ago. But that's pretty niche.

But equally, why is it an employee problem that the systems need securing?

I’m not a remotely bolshie employee and generally on board with the kool aid.

For clarity we must work from home a few days a week as approximately 40% of office space was sublet after Covid. Equally, our total personal IT provision is a laptop and a cheap wired headset despite being a relatively prestigious company to work for. Everything else is at your own expense.

I genuinely don’t get why personal mobile phones are required to facilitate what is ultimately the company’s issue.

*But equally, why is it an employee problem that the systems need securing

Employees are often the weakest link when it comes to system security. You can put in all the firewalls, anti-virus, conditional access to drives etc, but if it just takes someone with a username and a password to login, then that represents a potential threat.

And potential risk to a company, loss of data, ICO fine, reputational damage and potential collapse of company with loss of your job.

So I would argue that employees do have a role and should be playing their part in keeping systems secure.

But there is much more to systems security than employees having 2FA on their phone.

That's very "let them eat cake".

The Facebook bit made me laugh far more than it should have!! (Having had to break into a mates place for him).

My tech hell from today. Tried to book a swim for young daughter & friend at local pool we had not used before. The main website which covers about 12 different leisure centres, showed a timetable for this venue which stated leisure swimming was available today. Great off to a good start.

Then of course I had to download an app to book the session. Wasn’t sure if I had ever used the app before, tried to set up a new account, after trying several times to do this, the app tells me I already have an account. Ok, try to log in to this account, with the only email I have used in 20 years and the most likely variation of password. No doesn’t work, try all variations I have ever used, none of them work.

Do reset password, set up new password. Realise they have likely increased complexity of password as now require one that is longer, with numbers, characters etc. why can’t they just tell me that my existing password will no longer work? So I dont waste time trying all the possible variations of last 10 years!

Eventually get into app. Go to leisure centre I want, there is no option to book a pool session! Only badminton or table tennis. Heart is sinking now, thinking of daughters reaction. Get DH to check app. He confirms that it is not just my hatred of all this stuff clouding my ability to see how to book swimming - there is definitely no ability to book swimming. But the timetable said it was available!! That is why I have wasted all this time trying to get into the bloody app!

Ask DH who works in I.T what he thinks has gone wrong, he thinks online timetable is wrong “it happens”. Tell daughter there will be no swimming, daughter and friend start to cry, 2 x 8 year olds standing at the door with their swim bags all excited, now crying, because the online timetable is incorrect.

I am beyond frustrated, I say to DH, “let’s phone, if we can find a phone number, just to make sure”. Can’t find phone number on leisure website, (obviously) - they want me to use the app - but that’s not going so great . . .
Eventually find tel. number, via google, phone leisure centre “is the pool open today? Timetable says it is, but no ability to book a pool session”. Cheery voice tells me, that this is the only pool that does not require to be pre booked, you can drop in, stay as long as you want and pay at the door!

Shout to daughter, “pool is back on”. 8 yr olds cheer up.
Look at DH, “why did the bloody website tell me I had to download an app and book a swim slot, when I didn’t have to, for this pool?” Understandably he has no answer.

If the original timetable had just said “no need to book, just drop in” I would not have wasted 35 minutes trying to book something that didn’t need booked. But no, instead it said “ download our app for easy booking”. How I laughed.

If I had just phoned the place first, it would all have been sorted in literally 2 minutes, which was the time it took the cheery receptionist to give me the good news. Well maybe 5 minutes because obviously I had to search for the telephone number.

The story ends well though, it cost £2.40 per child for an unlimited swim, which felt like we had won the lottery, as we almost gave up, because the app said “no”. I didn’t believe the bloody app though and I was right!

Even as it was happening, I was thinking, this is exactly the stuff that Mumsnet thread is all about! And breathe …

You see, years ago pre internet / apps you had to just ring up places to speak to another human being and be told which time the pool opened and what the rules were regarding entry and the prices. Ok, it might have been an automated voice or push button menu , but you still would have found out almost straight away what was what and had an actual contact number-for them in in the phone book ( or directory enquires , who always answered straight away )
Was a different world.

Oh yes, that's another one - the centralised phone number. I wanted to find out if my local swimming pool had re-opened following access problems on their road. No info on the website, and when I tried to call it was firstly an automated hell-maze that eventually directed me to a recording of the standard opening hours, and finally a human in some call centre far, far away who just told me the same standard hours! It was impossible to call the pool directly and speak to someone actually sitting there.

zog14 was it Better Leisure by any chance??

I must be in the minority who loves having things automated - I have anxiety and not having to deal with people unless I have to is great for me. Also I have no issues with "being tracked" - if the government want to know that o go from home to work to the gym and occasionally pop to Costa then they're welcome to do so ... Likewise if they want to track my spending via my Google pay then they're welcome to do so though they'll be sick of seeing the words Asda, B&M and Costa after a couple of days.

I use my Google account for everything online, they generate and store all my passwords so I don't have to remember them but I get to have a different password for every site instead of using the same one everywhere. Is it annoying to have to have a separate app for everything? Sometimes yes but no more so than having to have physical membership cards/passes/loyalty cards etc like you used to have instead.

I rarely, if ever, carry cash any more never mind my physical cards because I use Google pay for everything - parking, shopping etc - fortunately for me my town car parks pretty much all use the same 2 parking apps which makes it easier but I much prefer that to having to carry coins, guess how long I want and then if I want longer have to physically go back to the car to add coins and get a new sticker ... now I just pay on my phone and then if I need longer I can extend my parking session by however long I need, from wherever I am. This is especially useful for when I have appointments I can't just leave in the middle of and I don't know if I'm going to be in and out in 10 minutes or there for 1hr+. I just start with the minimum parking session time and increase it if I need to via the app, as opposed to having to pay 2hrs parking (just in case) and then being out of the building in 15 minutes.

I love self checkout in the supermarket - I work in a supermarket and by the end of my shift I am exhausted of all my social availability and I do not want to have to speak to anyone else, I just want to scan my stuff and leave. Self scan means I can be in and out in a minute or two without any social interaction. It also means that if I want to buy tampons and a box of chocolates I don't have to go through the checkout and have the awkward interaction of my colleagues scanning them for me (I'm not embarrassed about my period, I just don't need my work colleagues to know about it either)

I love the NHS app - I can check any blood test results etc on there at my convenience, I don't have to call the surgery, wait in the queue and then wait while they find my record and check it - I just log in, go to test results and it's there immediately. The same for ordering prescriptions - I can order them whenever I want, from wherever I want, and have them sent directly to my pharmacy to collect and I can see on the app when they have been approved so I know that the pharmacy has the prescription. I know the doctors are closed at the weekends but if I remember on a Saturday night that I need my medications by the end of the week, I don't have to wait until Monday at 8am to go into the surgery I can order on the app at 11.43pm on Saturday night. Previously I had to physically go into the surgery (the local surgery down the street has closed and moved to a super surgery across town so it would require a trip out of my way to get there) write the request on a bit of paper, post it in a box and then wait at least 3/4 days before I could either go in and get my prescription from the surgery or go into the pharmacy and enquire if they had received it yet.

I also love that DDs school has always had everything in their own app - now I never have the hunt 17 different emails for information, have half a dozen 50ps/£1 coins for this and that, remember to send in permission slips/consent forms/sign up sheets, send in her lunch money in a little envelope etc everything is done on the app and available immediately.

Tickets and passes I have saved to my phone because it's so much easier to just save everything in my Google wallet (or the Stocard app for loyalty cards/passes) than carry a tote bag full of cards, passes, paper tickets etc and keep track of them all. I never worry about my battery dying as always have my power bank in my handbag for emergencies - I have a few for work trips etc but my day to day one is the same size as a debit card but a bit thicker so takes up next to no room, even in the smallest handbag and is good for two full phone charges before it needs recharging - and if my phone got lost/stolen then it's no different to if a physical ticket itself got lost/stolen, I'd just speak to a person at the venue.

That’s all great @melj1213 but what about those people who don’t have bank accounts or smartphones . or who are disabled and cannot use the phone for everything or elderly and confused. Also as someone who was hacked recently I am now much more cautious about having everything saved to google .

Also I am not sure I understand the parking time guess stuff . RingGo still makes you pay for the amount of parking at the beginning of the session , 2hours or 30 mins or whatever and the option to renew has been removed presumably by the council because they want people to move for new people You also don’t get a refund if you come back earlier and it won’t let you have two concurrent sessions in the same town!

who are disabled and cannot use the phone for everything

For various reasons I would say that being able to access things electronically or online (apart from a PIP claim form, naturally. No point in making those accessible) is a boon to the less able. Being able to use assistive technology to read or expand text natively, rather than arsing around with "should be supplied in large print but never are" letters.

Name and shame - is it Workday?

2hours or 30 mins or whatever and the option to renew has been removed presumably by the council because they want people to move for new people
Not removed where I am. I parked on Saturday and added on an extra 45 minutes when pur plans changed and we had more to do. Much easier than having to go back to the car and buy a new ticket.

Worse than making you use online forms are the organisations that promote that you can do stuff online but are half-arsed about it.

My Local council theoretically lets me tell them about council tax changes via an online form - I used it. They then sent me (after several weeks) a very snotty letter in the mail (despite having my email address) demanding more info. They hadn't bothered their arses to make the info mandatory iin the online form. I emailed them the information back, and they have now sent me a paper form I have to fill in!!!!