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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that what's best for the children gets left out of the free childcare conversation

177 replies

Ilikepinacoladass · 17/03/2023 19:31

The original thread reached max capacity.

It was really interesting to read all the replies and refreshing to hear than some people felt the same, as I haven't heard it discussed much in the media. All that seems to get focused on is how free childcare hours will get people back to work, save people money, help the economy.

The question of what's in the best interest of children doesn't seem to come up.

Found this article this morning interesting and one of the first I've seen bringing these issues up.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/16/the-guardian-view-on-hunts-childcare-plans-jobs-arent-all-that-matter?

'But his offer, treats childcare as a means to a single end: getting parents into work. Childcare isn’t just an economic growth issue. Early years education plays a crucial role in targeting inequalities and closing attainment gaps. For this reason, quality matters as much as availability. Mr Hunt, like his predecessors, sees childcare primarily as a labour market tool.'

OP posts:
Albertus · 17/03/2023 22:09

@Ilikepinacoladass I’m afraid with childminders it does often work like that. They’re sick, or they go on holiday, or they decide to pack it in or move away. I’ve never heard of a nursery closing because a staff member is poorly.

If you have important things on at work it’s not a risk worth taking.

Original poster
Ilikepinacoladass · 17/03/2023 22:10

WeightoftheWorld · 17/03/2023 22:01

The main reason for us was the fact that we have nobody else to help. If childminder is sick or has an appointment or anything, or retires, or whatever, we would be stuck. I don't think a practical consideration like that is the same as how fancy a holiday to go on. But anyway it's immaterial really as I know how much local childminders cost - as I did make enquiries, to investigate whether it would have been possible - and for two of them, it still would have been more than my wages! So still not an option to work (in my old job).

Show quote history

If a childminder is planning on retiring they would give you notice. Which would be in the contract.

I'm sure there are flakey and non reliable ones out there in terms of sickness/ appointments but am pretty sure that's a small minority.

Your reasons still sound like more of just a preference than practical reasons.

And for two children it must have been a very small age gap or twins to be paying double fees without the free hours after the oldest turns 3, for any considerable length of time?

OP posts:
SnackSizeRaisin · 17/03/2023 22:10

Ilikepinacoladass · 17/03/2023 22:00

How long would you have been paying double nursery fees for? The free 15 (or 30 hours currently) kicks in at 3, so unless there's a very small age gap or twins, it probably could have been very long?

Show quote history

Maybe it was a small age gap. Lots of people have less than 2 years between children. Also if your child is born after 1st April for example you lose 5 months compared to one born on 31st march. Finally 30 hours is only 22 hours a week across the year. Plus the nursery can charge top ups. For many people they still have to pay half or two thirds of the full cost. Many jobs require Ft or at least 4 full days a week so there isn't the option of just working the hours covered by the scheme.
Do you have children? You don't seem very aware of the reality of the "free" hours.

Botw1 · 17/03/2023 22:12

Did you literally not read any of the comments on your previous thread?

Not even 50 comments in and those one is as depressingly sexist as the last one.

Devaluing mothers my arse

Original poster
Ilikepinacoladass · 17/03/2023 22:13

Albertus · 17/03/2023 22:09

@Ilikepinacoladass I’m afraid with childminders it does often work like that. They’re sick, or they go on holiday, or they decide to pack it in or move away. I’ve never heard of a nursery closing because a staff member is poorly.

If you have important things on at work it’s not a risk worth taking.

Have you had a bad experience with one / or more?

Things like notice for holiday and retiring would be in the contract?

Nurseries do close for random reasons, heating not working, flooding, etc etc. Not often but not never.

OP posts:
Laptopneeded · 17/03/2023 22:14

@AngeloMysterioso

It's the purely American ideal.

I'm completely opposite to most posters.
Due to my life experience there was simply no way I could have left baby in nursery.
However I found it so hard sometimes and I would have loved a little break for a few hours each week as a sahm.

wiffin · 17/03/2023 22:20

Ilikepinacoladass · 17/03/2023 20:11

Yes I know how much it can cost, it's expensive.

But there are other options, childminders are often much cheaper, and take unpaid holiday. And the tax free childcare scheme helps.

On the whole I don't really see how someone could be wanting to work but not afford to do so (unless twins and maybe some other circumstances etc). Ie. actively making a loss from working.

I am a single parent, and would loved to have spent another year with my child rather than going back to work, but I just couldn't afford not to work? And I'm not paid mega bucks but any stretch of the imagination.

No one I know can't afford to work. Yes they all wish childcare was cheaper, so will be glad to be saving some money. But most people can't afford not to work, rather than the other way around?

Show quote history

I will respond to your anecdotal information with mine. Because mine is a total contrast.

I know lots of women (And it's normally women) for whom the cost of childcare exceeds or gets close to take home.

For me this was especially after number 3. And I was earning roughly £40k a year. I made about £15 a day after costs at one point. That was with free hours and one at school.

Childcare should be about choice. And quality is paramount. I don't believe the Tories will deliver either.

Satsumaonaplate · 17/03/2023 22:21

The free hours change would never affect me anyway as I absolutely do not want a paid worker, who doesn't love my child, looking after my babies. The thought horrifies me. You miss so much of their childhood.

Botw1 · 17/03/2023 22:24

There is lots of research that shows lots of women (always women eh, never men) would go back to work if there was more affordable child care

Lots of research on the positive effects on the gender pay gap and equality of affordable childcare

No evidence to suggest childcare is harmful.

All of this was explained and discussed in depth on the previous thread. None of which the op engaged with

They just kept popping up every few pages to repeat the same shit.

Why won't somebody pay me to be a sahm!! Is what it boils down to.

wiffin · 17/03/2023 22:25

And I don't believe this thread is anything other than yet another vehicle to slam women who work. Shame on you.

It should be a choice. Not a privilege. And I mean that regardless of how you choose. To work, to work part time, or not to work.

SouthLondonMum22 · 17/03/2023 22:27

Satsumaonaplate · 17/03/2023 22:21

The free hours change would never affect me anyway as I absolutely do not want a paid worker, who doesn't love my child, looking after my babies. The thought horrifies me. You miss so much of their childhood.

Why were you ok with your husband missing 'so much' of their childhood?

VivaVivaa · 17/03/2023 22:29

Satsumaonaplate · 17/03/2023 22:21

The free hours change would never affect me anyway as I absolutely do not want a paid worker, who doesn't love my child, looking after my babies. The thought horrifies me. You miss so much of their childhood.

But, god forbid, if your child was to suffer a serious accident on Monday morning, you’d be thanking with every fibre of your being that the paramedic’s baby, the A+E doctor’s baby, the paediatric nurse baby were being looked after in paid childcare so they could be in work caring for yours I hazard a guess.

SouthLondonMum22 · 17/03/2023 22:30

Laptopneeded · 17/03/2023 22:14

@AngeloMysterioso

It's the purely American ideal.

I'm completely opposite to most posters.
Due to my life experience there was simply no way I could have left baby in nursery.
However I found it so hard sometimes and I would have loved a little break for a few hours each week as a sahm.

We are definitely opposites.

I had a SAHM and for as long as I can remember, I knew if I had children I wouldn't be one.

Botw1 · 17/03/2023 22:31

@VivaVivaa

No I think they'd just think none of them should be a woman

Botw1 · 17/03/2023 22:32

@Satsumaonaplate

Are you going to homeschool when your 'babies' are of school age?

Botw1 · 17/03/2023 22:33

@Laptopneeded

Why couldn't their dad give you a break?

SouthLondonMum22 · 17/03/2023 22:34

@Botw1

Exactly. Women need to know their place at home.

It's depressing and makes me believe that women will never have equality.

Botw1 · 17/03/2023 22:37

@SouthLondonMum22

How can we when so many women are mysoginist?

Teafor1please · 17/03/2023 22:41

I'm about to earn about £200 above my childcare bill. My petrol for work is about £300 so that makes it less than worth it to go to work. I don't know why it's hard to believe that that is possible.
I am not giving up my job though.

SouthLondonMum22 · 17/03/2023 22:43

@Botw1 I know. That's the most depressing part.

We can't have equality if women don't want it.

Botw1 · 17/03/2023 22:43

@SouthLondonMum22

Nope.

Original poster
Ilikepinacoladass · 17/03/2023 22:44

wiffin · 17/03/2023 22:20

I will respond to your anecdotal information with mine. Because mine is a total contrast.

I know lots of women (And it's normally women) for whom the cost of childcare exceeds or gets close to take home.

For me this was especially after number 3. And I was earning roughly £40k a year. I made about £15 a day after costs at one point. That was with free hours and one at school.

Childcare should be about choice. And quality is paramount. I don't believe the Tories will deliver either.

Show quote history

Yes it's expensive I get that and it's crap to be working and not have much more than what cover expenses.

But if you are covering expenses, even just making £15 a day, you are still being 'able to work'. So many people saying it's giving parents a 'choice' and freedom to work if they want. I just don't buy that in the current circumstances, for most people, working is costing them more more than it's making them.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ilikepinacoladass · 17/03/2023 22:47

wiffin · 17/03/2023 22:25

And I don't believe this thread is anything other than yet another vehicle to slam women who work. Shame on you.

It should be a choice. Not a privilege. And I mean that regardless of how you choose. To work, to work part time, or not to work.

And what about the choice for people on UC who will be forced to use these hours, or see cuts in the benefits

OP posts:
Magentaa · 17/03/2023 22:48

Ilikepinacoladass · 17/03/2023 22:44

Yes it's expensive I get that and it's crap to be working and not have much more than what cover expenses.

But if you are covering expenses, even just making £15 a day, you are still being 'able to work'. So many people saying it's giving parents a 'choice' and freedom to work if they want. I just don't buy that in the current circumstances, for most people, working is costing them more more than it's making them.

Show quote history

🤦🏼‍♀️ I’m sorry but you are really irritating!! They probably think what’s the point in working for scraps, however with the free hours that pressure is off they will get some relief and have hard earn money in their pocket!!

Laptopneeded · 17/03/2023 22:50

@Botw1

He did. 🙄

But it was still a long stretch whilst he worked shifts.

I would as a full time sahm have liked a break for a few hours each week.

It was really tough.

Is there anything else you contribute to these discussions?

It's like you want to portray any working dad as some sort of selfish bastard.