Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU and disloyal to my friend?

37 replies

SillySalmonX · 17/03/2023 18:56

This is a ramble and I completely understand that many of you will not have time to read this till the end. Thank you in advance to anyone that can stick with it.

My friend ‘Anna’ is really upset with me and I don’t know what to do.
I’ve known her for a few years now and she befriended me at the kids’ bus stop when no-one else would as I’m introverted and socially awkward.
She brings me out of myself and we both have a weird sense of humour.
She’s been through some awful stuff in her life including marriage breakdown, financial strain and very serious health problems that are ongoing.
Despite facing all that she is an incredibly thoughtful and generous person and fiercely loyal – and expects that loyalty out of her friends.

For a good few months last year a weekly-ish social thing was being at the pub for an hour or two on a Saturday with Anna and my DH and a small group of other friends that are all couples except for Anna, as our DC (including Anna’s) attend a nearby activity.
At one point we ended up chatting to a random other couple that were sat there.
It was Anna that instigated this as she can be very outgoing (on the outside) when she’s had a drink.
The couple, ‘Gemma’ and ‘Steve’, happened to live nearby to me and DH.
Steve and my DH have a common interest (shared also with Steve’s son) and there have ended up being a few social occasions (again at the pub) centred around that interest.
Sometimes just the blokes, sometimes Gemma goes along too (their children are older so they have more freedom than the rest of us) and I’ve been a couple of times.
The summer pub thing fizzled out over the colder months but these other meet-ups, which started very infrequently and have now become a bit more regular since Christmas, continued.
Anna hasn’t been able to come along to these as her health has been awful – she has been virtually house bound for months.

Some other history that’s relevant to this is that towards the end of last summer I managed to get Anna out to a spa day with me for my birthday, and did invite Gemma to that, but she declined (with good reason, nothing sinister).
It had already been a while since Anna and Gemma had seen each other at that point. Last month (i.e. a further 5 months on), Anna’s very close best friend of old who lives further away invited me to join in a surprise show-up at Anna’s house for her birthday, which I went along to and did not invite Gemma.
It would have felt a bit odd to do that since it was organised by Anna’s friend who knows me a little bit but does not know Gemma, and also Anna and Gemma hadn’t by this time seen each other in several months.
With Anna in a poor health state in her home, not knowing anyone was coming round, it would have felt very inappropriate to invite Gemma to that - and at that point it didn’t seem that either of them would have expected Gemma to be there. A few days later I attempted to take Anna out to lunch during my lunch break on her actual birthday – we didn’t get far because her health was so bad that day – I told Gemma about this and she dropped off a card and bottle of wine for me to give to Anna.
More recently I actually managed to make it out to one of the blokes nights that Gemma couldn’t go to, and we all ended up stopping back at our house afterwards for a couple of drinks.
I told Anna about that night and she thought it was great that I’d been out and had a laugh - she didn’t have a problem with that.

Sorry for so much boring detail but it’s all been dragged up now in this mess.
Last weekend we (me and DH) were invited (via Steve, messaging my DH) to Gemma and Steve’s for Gemma’s birthday.
We went and had some drinks and a nice evening.
On Monday Anna asked what we’d been up to at the weekend and I told her we’d been round to Gemma and Steve’s.
Anna said she felt really hurt that Gemma had deliberately excluded her from being invited. She went on to message Gemma directly about it and Gemma sent back some defensive messages, a lot of it centred around the previously mentioned occasions - i.e. a lot of tit for tat type griping.

In her messages to me Anna became more and more upset that I wasn’t angry on her behalf about the situation, i.e. I wouldn’t agree that Gemma was in the wrong to have not invited her.
I feel very certain that Gemma (and Steve really since he was the one that did the actual inviting, although I know it wasn’t a surprise) just wouldn’t have even considered inviting Anna, the same as I wouldn’t have considered forewarning Anna that we were going round there.

But Anna is convinced it was a deliberate act by Gemma to push her out of what she still sees as the ‘pub group’ to exclude her and steal me all for herself (Anna’s actual words) – essentially Gemma doesn’t want Anna on the scene because she is single, and is taking advantage of the fact that she has been out of the social scene from illness.

To try and move away from the awful WhatsApp messages (which I’ve now deleted off my phone to stop myself from raking over them all in tears) where in my opinion I was playing devil’s advocate to try and get Anna to see things from a different perspective, but in her opinion I was refusing to have her back and standing up for Gemma instead, I suggested we meet for coffee on Wednesday lunchtime.

She brought written notes. And read through them whilst referring to screenshots of WhatsApp messages as evidence, all to try and convince me that Gemma is a horrible person. And Steve too. In honesty there may be certain truths in some of her observations about them. Before she got so poorly Anna was studying for a psychology degree so she does always seem really insightful about people.
But she was calling Steve a narcissist and Gemma a covert narcissist because Steve is probably horrible to her, and saying that Gemma is basically able to mould me because I’m a submissive person.
And it’s disgusting that while Anna was the one responsible for getting us all chatting to each other on that first day in the pub, Gemma’s plan now is to push Anna out for good.
I couldn’t really cope very well with the situation in public in my lunch break.
Anna’s way of talking intimidated me as she was quite loud and animated and she got herself really agitated, worked up and crying.
Basically I froze up and hardly spoke at all while she ranted at me, but when I did speak my stance didn’t change – I still wasn’t going to say that Gemma had been in the wrong.
So things ended horribly with Anna saying I’m not the person she thought I was.

Later she told me that on the way home she’d had another health episode and was bed bound with her back completely unable to move.
I felt awful as I hadn’t accompanied her home.

Yesterday she messaged me saying she was gutted that I was sticking up for Gemma and not her.
I said I didn’t want to talk on WhatsApp but could call her or pop round today.
When I’ve tried to do that today she has said she’s not up to it.

I feel like this is only going to resolve itself with Anna if I ‘dump’ Gemma – don’t agree to do anything further as couples and just leave the blokes to do their thing.
That’s the only way to validate to Anna that I ‘agree’ it was wrong for Gemma to have not invited Anna to her birthday.
But I still don’t believe that’s true.
I have tried to imagine what it would feel like the other way around – if I was in Anna’s shoes – and I just don’t think I would have gone off on one like this.

The loyal thing to do here is try to smooth things over with the vulnerable person who I’ve been friends with for longer, even though it will mean sucking up how I actually feel about the situation.
So why don’t I want to?
Am I being unreasonable and disloyal to Anna?

OP posts:
Nevermind31 · 17/03/2023 19:06

Tell Anna this isn’t high school and you can have more than one friend, especially if these are more your family friends.
tell her you are sad that she wants to limit you to one friend, and that you would be sad to lose her, and hope you won’t, but you will not let her dictate who you can socialise with as a couple, and you will also socialise sometimes without her. This is not a clique

Rogue1001MNer · 17/03/2023 19:08

Oh bless you!

You've done nothing wrong.

I gfeel sorry for everyone in this scenario.
Anna thinks she's been 'wendied' (look it up if you don't know it, it's on mn a lot)
Gemma sounds nice.

And you're trearing yourself up.

Just keep assuring Anna you're still friends.
Weather hopefully getting better soon, and hopefully the pub meetings will restart

Tannedandfake · 17/03/2023 19:09

I would have walked out when ‘Anna’ brought written notes tbh.. She sounds jealous. It’s not up to you to decide who your friends invite to their house.

Natty13 · 17/03/2023 19:11

What a horrible situation and I could really feel how much this is stressing you reading all that.

I would text Anna and tell her you love her, she is your close friend and you are not going to push her out. However you are allowed other friends. Tell her SHE is putting you in the middle not Gemma. Gemma hasn't said anything bad about Anna but Anna has said plenty bad about Gemma and ask her to please stop as it is upsetting you.

She needs to know that her vendetta is hurting your friendship with her

minou123 · 17/03/2023 19:12

My advice is to stay out if it.

This actually has nothing to do with you and Anna is trying to drag you in and make you choose sides.

Tell Anna and Gemma that you are friends to both of them. Any problems they have are between them.
They are adults and need to resolve this, without needing to resort to all this ridiculous behaviour.

Wishimaywishimight · 17/03/2023 19:15

Tannedandfake · 17/03/2023 19:09

I would have walked out when ‘Anna’ brought written notes tbh.. She sounds jealous. It’s not up to you to decide who your friends invite to their house.

Same! This is not normal behaviour. She is behaving as though she owns you. I would run a mile, this is way too intense for a friendship.

GoodChat · 17/03/2023 19:18

Just tell Anna you're not taking sides - and that includes not taking her side as this is between her and Gemma.

You would like to remain friends with them both - and those friendships can be as part of the group or individual, but you don't want to be stuck in the middle and won't be forced to choose between them.

bananaboats · 17/03/2023 19:19

I have to admit I'd run a mile from Anna in this situation but I don't have much time for this type of behaviour! Written notes sounds ridiculous and it sounds like she is the one trying to manipulate you.

LovedmyRaleighChopper · 17/03/2023 19:19

Anna is the unreasonable one here. She probably feels very vulnerable and upset with her extremely poor health but that’s still not a good excuse for her behaviour. Substitute “possessive” for “fiercely loyal” in your description of her and it becomes much more accurate.

BevMarsh · 17/03/2023 19:20

Anna is obviously having a really tough time of it and has a lot of time to sit and think which is doing her no good whatsoever.
She wants to stir the shit as it gives her something else to focus on stops her thinking about her own very real issues.
She is manipulating you and pandering to her will not help her in the long run and only make you miserable.
She has no control over her own life so is grasping for any kind of control she can.
Be firm

Blondewithredlips · 17/03/2023 19:22

Stay out of it. Everyone involved sounds very immature.

Ladybug14 · 17/03/2023 19:25

My god..... Anna is very very odd

I'd keep away from her

She sounds, well.... I don't know really. Very strange

MichelleScarn · 17/03/2023 19:28

She brought written notes. And read through them whilst referring to screenshots of WhatsApp messages as evidence, all to try and convince me that Gemma is a horrible person.
Fucking bonkers, that is more narcissistic I think. So controlling, definitely not a friendship I'd want to continue! She'll probably keep notes on all your interactions too pull out and berate you with at some point!

MargaretThursday · 17/03/2023 19:32

I totally see how Anna would feel left out and as if everyone else (not just you and Gemma) are moving on, making better friendships, and she'll never be able to keep up and you'll all forget about little boring old her stuck at home.
I'm sure you can empathise too.

However she's is totally wrong to try and make you choose and you are right to say that she shouldn't try and control your friendships.

I think what I'd do is write, snail mail, because it gives time to think about it rather than fire messages backwards and forwards which can very quickly get emotional etc.
Say that you really value her friendship, but what's between her and Gemma has to stay there, you want to stay friends with both Anna and Gemma.
If you can put it in a tactful way, then finishing putting it in Anna's court so ask her to think about this and let you know how she feels about it.

Then don't do anything else until you hear from Anna.

waterlego · 17/03/2023 19:33

Is Anna lonely? Seems likely given her health situation. I wonder if her mental health is now also not very good, as a result of her physical problems. It doesn’t excuse her behaviour but might go some way to explaining it.

You have done nothing wrong here as far as I can see, and nor has Gemma. I would keep reassuring Anna but be firm, as you have been up till now.

GlassBunion · 17/03/2023 19:39

It sounds like you and your partner have really hit it off with Gemma and Steve ( you mention Gemma an awful lot) and Anna is feeling left out.

I can see Anna's point of view but she is being unreasonable about it.
Coming to a coffee bar with pre written notes and WhatsApp screenshots is rather odd.

I honestly don't know how you can came back from this with Anna.

I'd be inclined to go low contact with her , due to her odd behaviour but it seems so sad, given that originally, you were close to her.

Tricky but go with your gut.

Curseofthenation · 17/03/2023 19:41

I wouldn't want to be friends with someone that thinks I'm a pushover. She sounds crazy and obsessive. If anyone needs to go, then it's got to be Anna.

Sugarfish · 17/03/2023 19:42

Do you think she might be feeling angry at being ill for so long and is perhaps lashing out and using Gemma as a target? She might be feeling like Gemma is replacing her?

Alltheproductsnoidea · 17/03/2023 19:45

Sounds very messy!

Sugarfish · 17/03/2023 19:46

I completely missed the bit about bringing notes. Has she ever done anything like this before, and is poor mental health part of her illness? I’d be worried about my friend’s mental state if she suddenly stated doing this.

Bananabreadandcupofcoffeethanks · 17/03/2023 19:56

She brought written notes. And read through them whilst referring to screenshots of WhatsApp messages as evidence, all to try and convince me that Gemma is a horrible person. And Steve too. In honesty there may be certain truths in some of her observations about them. Before she got so poorly Anna was studying for a psychology degree so she does always seem really insightful about people
But she was calling Steve a narcissist and Gemma a covert narcissist because Steve is probably horrible to her, and saying that Gemma is basically able to mould me because I’m a submissive person.
And it’s disgusting that while Anna was the one responsible for getting us all chatting to each other on that first day in the pub, Gemma’s plan now is to push Anna out for good.

This really isn't healthy. It's really extreme!

Anna sounds like she has some attachment difficulties, that make her insecure and jealous. That doesn't make her a bad person, just somebody in pain and struggling. But it's not your fault, you've done nothing wrong at all.

I think there are certain people who are drawn to studying psychology to try to understand and fix their own issues. Understandable, but just because somebody studies psychology it doesn't make them immune to dysfunctional thinking themselves - they're still unaware of their own shit. Or maybe aware, but not able to break out of unhelpful patterns.

Bananabreadandcupofcoffeethanks · 17/03/2023 20:00

Also, how old are you all?

I think sometimes, roughly through your twenties or thirties depending, friendship dynamics all start changing. Friendships as teens and student and living in house shares with a group of friends tend to be more intense, and then things usually change as people get into serious relationships.

SillySalmonX · 17/03/2023 20:12

Yes I do wish I had left when she pulled out the notes. The guy had just showed up to take our order and I felt trapped. So it was bound to go wrong from there.

She has never brought notes to support an argument before! We've never had a very serious falling out before but have disagreed about some quite big things and had to leave it at agree to disagree - all very normal.

One time when she was very upset about stuff to do with her ex I told her it might help to write down her thoughts and I believe she did and it helped.
But yeah I was not expecting that, and in difficult new social situations I don't cope well. Which she should know about me. Maybe it was deliberate so she could talk more without me butting in.

@Sugarfish and @MargaretThursday you're right, she's watching things progress without her while she can't do anything about it when stuck at home so much, and I do empathise. I think I have been tone deaf in telling her what I've been up to (although worse if I hid stuff/lied I think and didn't realise there was a need to) and maybe the effort of having to be nice about it to me wore thin and she has finally now revealed how she feels.

Or perhaps she really has been fine with it up until now, but the fact that it finally progressed to a 'couples night round someone's house' hit a nerve.
She knows how much I care about her though and I still can't really understand how she's doubting that.

I can try to keep reassuring her I'm not going anywhere, without backing down. I will find that hard as my tendency is to push to get it resolved and this doesn't feel like it will ever be one of those agree to disagree situations. But it's better than stuffing up it all for everyone (would be awful if it messed things up for DH too). I just don't think she'll back down either, as she's so deeply hurt by it all.

@Rogue1001MNer Thank you for the definition of wendied! Maybe she does think that's what has happened. Deep down I think she knows it's not.

OP posts:
SillySalmonX · 17/03/2023 20:18

@Bananabreadandcupofcoffeethanks
That's a really interesting perspective and so helpful - thank you.

OP posts:
merlotlover · 17/03/2023 20:24

I have a group chat of three mums
The other two fell out over something and I told both of them the same, I love you I'm not taking sides. They are both friends again and it's back to normal