Dogs and joggers

[TootsAtOwls]

I'm prepared to be told IABU on this but interested to know what others think...

I have a rescue dog who is mostly fine, always friendly if he meets people in the house etc. However he does sometimes bark at people he doesn't like the look of when we pass them on the street (tall men, people wearing neon colours etc). I am actively working on this with positive reinforcement (I get the treats out before we pass people so he learns that other people are a good thing) and most days pass without incident.

However, I am having trouble with (male) runners. They come out of nowhere, running around corners and hurtling past at full speed. I often don't have time to get the treat into the dog's mouth or he's already too distracted by the runner to take it. So he barks, and lunges (I know he means it in a playful way, but they don't!) They always seem to look back and give me a dirty look as i call out "Sorry!"

But I can't help thinking, if I was running past a dog, I'd either cross the road to avoid them or if that's impossible (say on a canal path) I would bloody well slow down! I get that they don't want to keep interrupting their run with bouts of walking. Bit am I so unreasonable to think that you don't run right past a dog who's looking intently at you (as opposed to a dog showing no interest)? Surely they must see it's going to get them barked at?

And a thank you from them is rarely forthcoming!

I always thank people who have shown courtesy towards me when I'm running by e.g. standing aside with their dog, or moving so their group isn't taking up the whole path, or cars who give me enough berth.

I think you should let your dog off the lead, to chase the runner, and shout “he’s a bit bitey”.

Thank you @TheOrigRights . I'm glad you take the time to. I guess my point was that it seems they're often in such a hurry that they forget their manners.

In my experience this is the exception rather than the rule. Most people have basic manners.

I am a runner, I am also a dog owner (of a dog who used to occasionally react towards certain people). I try and give a lot of room to all dogs (e.g. usually run on the verge if the dog is on the pavement). I still occasionally get barked at and it startles me. Tbh I think it is the reactive dog's owners responsibility to create space so the reaction doesn't happen, that's what I did when I was counter conditioning my dog and yes it is exhausting and requires you to have eyes in the back of your head. But it's not the runners fault.

Relate to having a reactive dog but you maybe should walk them at quieter times or in a less public space. It’s frustrating but hoping others will adjust their behaviour to your fog unfortunately is pointless. Been there! Find somewhere that works for you & your dog as being reactive if fear based & isn’t going to magically be trained out of him/her 🍀

I just wonder what goes through people's head when they live in a town or city and think having a dog is the thing to do. selfish and irresponsible.

Oh come on @kitsuneghost I used to live in leafy SW London. We were tripping over parks and open spaces. Parts of Birmingham and Norwich and Cambridge and Southampton and every other city I've lived in are the same.

Sick of parks being synonymous with dog walking areas. Dogs should be banned from parks.

Can I ask how to train though? My dog who is a goldie, wekl socialised, happy as larry and really well trained as started to bark at little dogs - she isnt an alpha and was wacked once by one so is anxious now I think - and barks at people dressed completely in black - my daughter said it s because she only sees shadows so cant figure what it is.

i have tried lots of things: saying hi to the dogs and the people she barks at to show her they are ok. It has helped a lot so she does do it less.

i have stroked her and say reassuring noises and it helps too.

but how would you suggest I do to make it stop?

thanks

Lots of space - so she can see but isn't forced near them. You'll know if its enough space if you can give her a high value treat (so cheese, sausage, something really good) and she takes it and enjoys it rather than ignores it or snatches but mumbles it around or spits it out.

If she can listen to you, even if its just to flick ears your way, thats also a good indicator you're getting towards the right amount of space for her.

Once you have that, then pair the sight of whatever normally worries her with something she loves, typically thats going to be food as its the most convenient and its a primary reinforcer (you don't have to DO anything to food, it automatically is reinforcing if the dog is below threshold), whereas other options are secondary reinforcers (you have to pair them with a primary reinforcer, so play, praise, the dog has to learn that they are reinforcing first..).

Reassure her, fuss her if she finds that nice - theres a pervasive and damaging myth that by being nice and comforting your dog will somehow make fear worse (I've seen it alluded to several times in this thread) - it won't. However if you do something YOU think is nice but your dog finds stressful - so cuddling a non-cuddly dog for example - then that will simply add to the fear!

Avoid situations where you think your dog will be overwhelmed - if shes worried about other dogs, then I would not try to get space and reinforce if the other dog approaching is off lead and ignoring its owner - I would enact the 'get the fuck out of here' protocol.. and skedaddle. Possibly lobbing some treats toward the other dog to distract it so we can get away (the other owner may not like this but tough shit... should have recalled their dog!).

You should see her start to unwind and find things easier, you will still have to advocate for her, shes learned some little dogs aren't nice - she will not forget that, but you can get to a point where she listens to you and relaxes enough not to bark at them on sight, so that you can get past without drama.

I am one of those, I hate people ringing their bell at me. Especially when I am well over to the side anyway, I wonder how much space people actually need.

I only ever use my bell myself if a group has spread themselves across the entire path, and then I don't care if it sounds imperious or rude, because they are path-hogging. Although then it seems to startle them and they run about like headless chickens anyway. So I am not sure ringing a bell actually achieves much. A cheery good morning usually works better.

Well that isn't going to happen. But I do think there need to be different demarcated areas, some for off lead dogs, some for on-lead dogs and some for humans only.

Yes I do as well.

Sick of parks being synonymous with dog walking areas. Dogs should be banned from parks.

Where are they supposed to exercise?

Sick of parks being synonymous with dog walking areas. Dogs should be banned from parks.

that's a bit harsh.
though I think dogs should be on lead in public unless in a specific contained area.

Elsewhere?

@QuertyGirl like? In this thread we've been told they should be on footpaths, canal paths or in parks. So, aside from dog fields that are expensive and not very popular, where do you suggest?

who cares?
let dogs form thier own support groups and campaign for places to exercise, the owners treat them as if they were human, put them above other humans so surely they should be up to the task?

@Thesharkradar wow that makes you sound really intelligent and insightful

thank you, I'm very flattered, you sound really intelligent and insightful too

They mentioned poisoning dogs with “raisions” earlier this thread so I wouldn’t expect too much of decent debate.

damn, did I make a typo with the dried fruit
oh the shame

I was highlighting the fact that someone who seems happy to consider poisoning animals won’t really be trying to think of any sensible compromises or solutions. Whatever though, keep whinging, there’s fuck all you can do about dogs and whether they’re walked.

I think Thesharkradar has been unduly influenced by those pictures of dogs playing poker and overestimates their capacities.