Dogs and joggers

[TootsAtOwls]

I'm prepared to be told IABU on this but interested to know what others think...

I have a rescue dog who is mostly fine, always friendly if he meets people in the house etc. However he does sometimes bark at people he doesn't like the look of when we pass them on the street (tall men, people wearing neon colours etc). I am actively working on this with positive reinforcement (I get the treats out before we pass people so he learns that other people are a good thing) and most days pass without incident.

However, I am having trouble with (male) runners. They come out of nowhere, running around corners and hurtling past at full speed. I often don't have time to get the treat into the dog's mouth or he's already too distracted by the runner to take it. So he barks, and lunges (I know he means it in a playful way, but they don't!) They always seem to look back and give me a dirty look as i call out "Sorry!"

But I can't help thinking, if I was running past a dog, I'd either cross the road to avoid them or if that's impossible (say on a canal path) I would bloody well slow down! I get that they don't want to keep interrupting their run with bouts of walking. Bit am I so unreasonable to think that you don't run right past a dog who's looking intently at you (as opposed to a dog showing no interest)? Surely they must see it's going to get them barked at?

YABU totally 100%, your dog should NOT lunge at people. I hate dogs coming towards me and as a runner I will come up in people from behind and around circlets all the time often making them jump, that’s the nature of running. Get a muzzle for the dog, at least then runners know it can’t bite them..

Best answer ever

I was riding down a dark road one night, there were 2 people walking in the same direction ahead of me. I didn't want to startle them so I moved over, slowed right down, told them I was passing and did so, only to suddenly see their black collie type dog come darting across the road and sink it's teeth into my thigh. It happened in an instant. I wasn't hurt too badly, it didn't bite anything off, but there was quite a bit of blood and puncture marks. I love dogs, but they're idiots and decisions on attacking people shouldn't be left up to them

Get a muzzle for the dog, at least then runners know it can’t bite them
But the fur baby doesn't like that, the fur baby just wants to enjoy itself and do its own thing
it's not fair to restrict the furbaby it just wants to have fun
it needs to express it's personality by doing fur baby things, lunging at people barking and biting, that's just its way of saying hello and being fwendly!

This is really great advice, thank you

This is what I do, and 99 times out of 100 it's fine.

The issue is when people emerge out of nowhere and run past at close range, which is what I'm working on.

And for those asking, I do avoid enclosed paths whenever possible but unfortunately I have to walk on a canal path for a couple of minutes to get out of my home.

YABU! Runners have every right to run on the pavement and if your dog can't handle it I suggest you muzzle the damn thing. The runners aren't doing anything wrong, you are.

This thread is funny. I really thought it would nicely put the dog-haters against the man-haters in terms of who to blame most. Interesting that the dog-haters seemed to win out. I would have bet on the man-haters for sure.

bonus points next time, OP, if the offending exerciser is a cyclist. Then you could get a 3 way competition between the dog/cyclist/man haters.

Even better (more popcorn) if you can drop in that you drive a stonking huge SUV, or if you docked your dog's tail.

@OneTC OK? I agree fully that dogs should be under control, whether that's unleashed walking next to the owner or on a tight lead + muzzle. As you know, that doesn't always happen - and unfortunately you were in circumstances where you couldn't assess the hazard and respond accordingly. Uncontrolled, unlit, unleashed black dog in the dark, did the owners secretly want rid of it?!

I was responding to a PP who apparently doesn't want any dog capable of injuring someone in public - my point being, that is a hell of a lot of dogs and will never happen. And that when you are approaching an unknown dog (that you can see), you should use caution because some dogs are dangerous and you can't always tell which.

Ooh, I see I posted soon soon! the middle part of thread goes nicely anti-cyclist for a while. So ticked all the main dimensions after all. Even thought OP never mentioned cyclists as her problem people.

But I can't help thinking, if I was running past a dog, I'd either cross the road to avoid them or if that's impossible (say on a canal path) I would bloody well slow down! I get that they don't want to keep interrupting their run with bouts of walking. Bit am I so unreasonable to think that you don't run right past a dog who's looking intently at you (as opposed to a dog showing no interest)? Surely they must see it's going to get them barked at?

Why should a runner cross the road into traffic to avoid your dog, unless it was a threat to his safety?
I also doubt very much he was paying any attention to how your dog was looking at him, as he was just focusing on his run. If you noticed however, then it's YOU who should be restraining your dog rather than expecting the runner to read your dog's mind.

Regular runner here, and I can't say I've had much trouble getting past dog walkers as they are usually courteous, and some of them do rein their dog in to let me pass, which I always thank them for.
If I spot an excitable one, then I give them a wide berth.

Only thing that botheredgv me recently was a dog not on a lead, doing its business next to the footpath and owners were several metres ahead, so I had to tell them as I jogged past.

Most dogs that "look" at you are hoping for a friendly fuss. I like dogs a lot. I would love to spend all day stopping to say hello to every dog.

However I don't want to startle the dog or have them follow me & become my responsibility, and the owner may be happy day dreaming not wanting to supervise. Anyway, there's generally no reason to avoid dogs or think just because it looked at you that it's scared.

No, it's your responsibility to keep your dog in check, not the runners.

One of my old dogs did not like children. She would not run after them but would bark if they got close, she was scared of them. My responsibility to keep them safe and not get scared of her so she was back on a lead and a wide berth given. If not possible I would tell them/ their parents that she's not too good with kids.

You do realise the dog license was just a bit of paper, it didn’t force people to train their dogs. It also sounds like OP is doing her best to train her dog.

I’m a runner and multiple dog owner (shock horror some are foreign rescues !) when running I always make myself known if coming up behind someone and try to give dogs as much space as possible. When walking my dogs they get called into me to let runners pass (pisses me off when they don’t acknowledge this!) if a runner comes up behind me without warning then they get shouted at by me, luckily my dogs run with me a lot so aren’t reactive.

How close do runners feel it is acceptable to pass other path users? Lets forget the dog for a minute - its a shared path, how close is it acceptable, to you, to pass someone, particularly going significantly faster than them, from behind, without warning.

Do you think its ok to invade someone elses personal space, suddenly, without warning?

Would you be surprised if a person were startled by this?

Why the surprise if a dog is startled by it? Training does not turn a dog into a robot, they're still capable of being startled and scared!

It isn't reasonable (nor is it accepable within the animal welfare laws in the UK ) to walk dogs on lead so short they cannot look around or move properly. In fact to do so would increase the incidences of reactivity as the dog feels trapped and more fearful of sudden startling events like a jogger appearing suddenly from behind.

I think it is reasonable that dog owners assess where they plan to walk and choose places with lots of space wherever possible...

And that joggers/runners, if they want to run on shared paths, moderate their own behaviour by slowing, calling out if coming up behind, and giving space.

The only situation where you need to make yourself known, is if there isn't enough space to pass.

A simple excuse me please, or sorry can I just get past.

Otherwise, I think most people can cope with being overtaken without warning.

I'm quite a brisk walker, I'm not warning everyone I pass. That's mad.

If you see/ hear the runner coming, Make You Dog Stop/ Sit & get a firm grip on his collar, use The Word “Calm” or similar, then wait for the runner to pass, if he stands up or tries to lunge pull him back immediately tell him “Calm” again, Only after the runner has passed & he is sitting calmly Then give him a reward, Dont give rewards before he has exhibited the behaviour you want, always have your dog on your left side, use a leash no longer than 5 feet ( those extendable things are rubbish you have no control if your dog is 8 feet away from you)
My current dog exhibits leash aggression with other dogs that bark aggressively , he knows I’m vulnerable and can be over protective ( I’m in a wheelchair) I just tell him to “Stop! Be Cool”. When he’s calm , I reward him.
he was a rescue.

Yes, if you see or hear the runner coming - not the situation I am talking about (though your advice is very poor and likely to increase reactivity, not decrease it.)

Dogs don't automatically know what the word 'calm' means and forcing them to sit, preventing movement by holding the collar etc can dramatically increase the chances of them feeling bad about such a situation in the future.
As an 'emergency strategy' to avoid accident, yes of course - but as a training plan, no, absolutely not.

As for 'don't give rewards before he has exhibited the behaviour you want...' well.. tell me you don't know the difference between operant conditioning and classical conditioning without telling me.......

Btw, your dog is not protecting you. He's protecting himself. If he is aware of your vulnerability, it is only in the sense that by being trapped, on a lead, with you, it makes him more vulnerable too. What you are doing is waiting for him to guess the correct response, and probably causing him to suppress behaviour/emotion rather than actively changing emotion which would then change behaviour.

Back to the topic in hand...

Who gets to determine how much space to pass - I'd like it if people left a good few feet between me and them, because if I turn suddenly and I have no choice but to do so sometimes (I can't see behind me, and I can't turn my head to see all Ill see is my headrest), I would suddenly be taking up an extra two feet of the pavement as my chair is longer than it is wide.

If you've decided I only need a foot spare, and I turn to see whats coming up behind me, you're going flying over my foot rests and splat into the pavement - if you're walking you can probably side step but if you're running, the chances are you won't.

However, I agree that if passing with enough space and walking, theres no need to call out or let someone know you're passing. I don't believe I said there was, as I was talking about runners, not walkers, and people passing close, not people passing with plenty of room.

As ever, people do like to twist others wording ...

Haha, that wouldn’t stop the dog from startling if I was overtaking.

Also isn’t that what she should be doing anyway? Keeping her dog away from runners and walkers

its a shared path, how close is it acceptable, to you, to pass someone, particularly going significantly faster than them, from behind, without warning.

honestly, my 1st thought was, how acceptable is it for someone to stroll slowly taking up most of the path , making everyone else have to slow down & give a wide berth. It's how I feel in the supermarket at max OAP hour or at letting out time at secondary school. Throngs of slow moving oblivious people to navigate. There's no reason why the slow person gets automatic RoW.

A bit of give & take is what normally makes most of society get by. If I'm moving faster, i call out so they don't veer into my path, & if I'm moving slower, I make room for the faster person(s). It's not rocket science. I think I learned how to do this when I was 8 or 9, skiing.

I thought dogs had pretty good hearing? I'm a runner and not sure I've ever managed to sneak up on one. They notice me way before the owner does.

Remarkably easy to sneak up on a dog if they're focused on something else (owner, getting to the park, treats, that lamp-post up ahead), particularly if the wind is in the wrong direction taking scent away from them to you, rather than from you to them. Even easier if you're running on a quiet surface vs a crunchy one.

My scent hound wouldn't know until you were up his arse, his nose and the scent going in it and the treats I have are his entire world for most of a walk. On the other hand you couldn't sneak up on our Saluki if your life depended on it, shes a ninja!

I don't necessarily think slower = ROW, I do think person with their back to you, does, however.

honestly, my 1st thought was, how acceptable is it for someone to stroll slowly taking up most of the path , making everyone else have to slow down & give a wide berth.

this I agree with so much and feel so annoyed with often when running. People go meandering in the middle of the path, often swerving back and forth making it impossible to decide which side willl be safest to overtake them.

I'm a very fast walker @Divorcedalongtime . But really? parents holding hands with toddlers, elderly people (that'll be you one day) with mobility and balance issues, people with disabilities, or even shorter legs that you fgs!

I often walk the cliff paths near me with my dog. We steam along up and down the hills. But come Sunday morning the club runners come out and without exception me and the dog step aside to let gaggles of them come by on the narrow path. It's much easier to do that than run the risk of heavy huffing and evil looks. Runners are afforded a lot of courtesy IME. And a thank you from them is rarely forthcoming!