Neighbour's child crying WWYD

[woulducouldushouldu]

Sorry long one

Let me start this off to say that I really don't want to be unreasonable and my gut feeling is to say nothing but ....

New neighbours moved in 18 months ago. We have a reasonable relationship with them. Say hi when we see each other, dh fixed the fence when it blew down, take in parcels, etc but we are not close. They are in their mid 30s with 2 young kids (we are in our 50s with 2 at uni away from home).

The issue ....

Their eldest (3yrs) is left to cry every weekday morning. NDN husband leaves v early for work (6:30am). They also have a toddler (14m) and we generally don't hear him. I don't know which room he is in but the girl is in the bedroom the other side of the party wall to our bedroom and I am woken up most week days by her crying/screaming.

We are a Victorian semi with reasonably thick brick party walls. If you shout or scream they can hear you next door but you can't hear normal level conversation or, for example the tv or door bell.

I get that kids cry/scream. Mine did and I still have to yell up the stairs to them but I never left them to scream for over an hour. The level of distress increases as the hour goes on. It's the distress in her voice that gets me rather than the volume.

Our bed was backed onto the party wall and we had to move it to the other side of the room. I can't put the wardrobe in its place as we have built ins but have a high chest of drawers to try and muffle the sound.

Ok this is my AIBU ... do I say something ? I think it's not my place to comment on anyone's parenting (god knows mine has not always been perfect) but DH thinks that it has gone on so long we should gently remind them that the walls are not completely sound proof.

The (passive aggressive) coward in me thinks i should have a conversation with friend in garden (when NDN is in her garden) about how we used to leave toys/books in the bedroom for kids to amuse themselves/keep them quiet early in morning.

In case anyone asks I don't think that there are any sensory/adhd/autistic traits but I don't know the child well enough to say for sure.

My gut tells me to suck it up and she will grow out of it. What would you wise Mumsnetters advise? Say something or not

well, if she is 3, she will surely grow out of it soon, I think I would just suck it up

You should knock and say, 'you probably don't hear but your daughter wakes up and cries for an hour before you go to her. Just thought I would let you know because you must not be able to hear her from your room.'
She should not be left for an hour alone crying. How awful. Mum will hopefully feel embarrassed and start tending to her.

Good neighbours work on both sides of the wall. They may be completely unaware that their daughter is affecting your quality of life so badly. The question is how much is it affecting you - enough for you to say something, in the hope that it will change, but the knowledge that your relationship with the neighbours may also change, or not enough to raise the subject?

Are you worried about the child or fed up with the noise or both?

Is she crying while the husband is there or after he goes?

Is it possible to tell whether the mother and baby are asleep or just ignoring her?

I can't imagine a reason for leaving a 3yo to cry in distress for an hour every morning. It sounds really odd.

A bit of both but more concerned (pissed off) about the distress. The house is not that big that you need a baby monitor.

I think I will keep it light and just mention something along the lines of "x has a good pair of lungs"

"X has a good pair of lungs" isn't likely to open up a conversation though - particularly around the child's welfare.
How about, "I woke this morning hearing x sound very upset. Is she OK or is she not well?"
Parent response should give you an idea, maybe, of how to progress.

This sounds so condescending and passive agressive I can’t imagine they’d be particularly responsive.

Just to add another perspective, my DD is 3 and has horrendous night terrors. She will scream and cry for sometimes an hour on and off despite being in the same bed as me. I do everything I can to comfort her but I have found nothing that will stop her screaming. I have even spoken with our health visitor to help but she had no suggestions other than it’s a phase and we have to ride it out.

It is very distressing and awful to witness and I often wonder what our neighbours must think. I did see one of them in the garden a couple of weeks ago and briefly explained the situation but from next door it may well sound as if she’s not being comforted, when in fact she is! Her Dad sleeps in a separate room so that she can be in with me every night so it may not always be that she is being ‘left’.

How about, "I woke this morning hearing x sound very upset. Is she OK or is she not well?"

This is more likely to get the message over gently but clearly.

The whole thing sounds peculiar and I think I've just worked out why... is it possible this child is locked in the room?

Because 3yos don't tend to sit in one room getting more and more upset for an hour - they walk into other rooms and look for their parents. 😢

I wouldn't do anything.

My DD used to scream the house down over the most trivial things....like a toy being moved or a lost piece of Lego. I would be trying to calm her down but it didn't stop her. This was years ago now...my neighbours still hate me. I think they think I'm a monster!

I have had the same issue except my bedroom is not on the party wall and I can still hear their toddler every bloody morning and evening. I dont want to wake up to someone crying its just such a negative way to start my day. I dont also want to come home from work and be in the kitchen making my food and hearing another tantrum.

So I got multi room speakers one downstairs in the kitchen and one in the landing and timed to turn on so it drowns out the noise. The volume isn't loud enough to disturb them but its enough to block the noise.

Maybe try something similar ...you can always play white noise or other soothing sounds instead if you don't want music on.

But, if your neighbours had just asked, is DD OK or is she unwell, then you could have explained her non verbal method of voicing her displeasure!
Then they could take steps to minimise noise, as far as possible, on their side, but knowing (as far as anyone can know) that they weren't living next door to a child abuser.

As pp said OP, it may be that child is actually in bed with Mum.
Maybe Dad leaving for work is what sets her off.

there are two scenarios here.

The first is a dutiful, loving parent who is doing everything they can with a child going through a difficult phase. We all want this to be the scenario.

the second is a parent who can’t be bothered to deal with their child in the morning and the screaming is the result of neglect.

i wouldn’t want to risk leaving a child in the second scenario unreported. I would talk to your neighbor and just try to do it gently. Don’t complain about the crying, just express concern for the child. If it is the first scenario, hopefully the neighbor will understand why you had to be a little nosy. If it is the second, it is possible a little attention will help someone see that the parenting is not acceptable. There is also the risk that neglect will continue they will just get better at hiding it. A gentle query is still worth that risk.

The only other option is skipping speaking to the neighbor and going directly to social services, but given the likelihood of the first scenario and the fact that a visit from social services can make an abuser just get better at hiding just as much as a neighbor, I would go with a personal visit first.

Child is def not in bed with Mum. Parents room at front of house, child at back. Child not usually awake until 20-30 mins after Dad leaves for work. I know Dad leaves early as I see him outside if I go to the gym early and he creeps around the place.

As its been going on a while so difficult to suddenly ask if she is sick.

My suspicion is that mum is getting herself ready and leaves child in her room until she (mum) is up dressed along with toddler. TBH when I had little kids this age I would either get up early or bring them into our room with a book/toy whilst I got them ready. They were always able to leave their rooms as well and I never locked them in. Child should be able to get up, leave room and find mum. If you dont want them going downstairs then put up a stair gate (as we did).

Never any noise on weekends when dad home. I have heard Dad and child downstairs on weekend mornings so suspect that he gets up with her on Sat and Sunday

I would just put some earplugs in for now. It's probably just her age. My neighbours son is almost 3 and has the most epic tantrums over the most trivial things. More so since she's had dc2 6 months ago. Neighbour is a good friend and I took her a box of chocolates round one evening after I had heard the eldest screaming all day. She was utterly exhausted.

My 3 year old has night terrors, usually at the start of the night (around 11pm generally) but occasionally early morning too. When she has a night terror she will not budge from her bed, often won't even allow me to pick her up, it's like she doesn't recognise me, she screams like she's in pain and is inconsolable for ages afterwards. It's heartbreaking trying to deal with it and I don't know what my neighbours must think but I am with her from the second she starts screaming. I do try to move her to the living room but often picking her up results in even more screaming and fighting me. Her health visitor also said its a phase she has to grow out of.

Yes I see your point @Wingedharpy I would have quite liked to explain I wasn't actually torturing her, she was screaming over something minor whilst I was pleading with her to calm down!

I would mention it to the dad,sad that she only cries when hes not there to get her!the mum is obviously not bothered by a three year old crying for an hour every weekday! Horrible way to start the day ,poor girl.

"I have heard Dad and child downstairs on weekend mornings"

It's not just the crying if you can tell who is in which room. I think you should look at options for proper sound proofing.

OMG please don’t do this OP! You don’t know anything about their relationship and it’s not going to help anyone in that house, or your relationship as NDNs l, for the dad to be embarrassed/worried/angry and having a go at the mum about it as a result.

Just make a point of trying to “bump into” the mum, (or do knock on the door if you feel able to, and invite her round for a cuppa with the children). You can empathise with how difficult it is to have little ones and say she might not be aware, but you often hear the three year old crying for a while in the morning and she sounds quite distressed. See how she responds and offer the advice about toys/books/stairgate etc in a “when one of ours was an early riser we found this worked” kind of way.

I don’t like mine having toys in their room at bedtime as then they want to play not sleep, but I have a bag of bits I pop into the bedroom before I go to sleep, so there’s something there to play with when they wake up. I change them over intermittently, so there’s often something they haven’t seen for a while. A story box like Timio/Tonie/Yoto are also a good call for early mornings (and bedtimes!)

Honestly a little bit of empathy and compassion can go a long way. Obviously if the mother is defensive and unpleasant about it that might be a different matter, but she’s probably just exhausted and overwhelmed.

For what it's worth mine is 3 and sometimes screams in the night when over tired, I go to him and he's normally quiet within 5 mins - only relevance to this is that I wouldn't take any offence at all if the neighbour said something like 'is X okay I've heard him waking upset has he been poorly?' Or in your case 'is X okay they seem to be waking upset have they been poorly' and I would openly just talk about it

In our case it sounds like child is ignored for a period so mum can do certain things but it may just make an awareness that you can hear so she gets the older child up and out of bed whilst doing them.

Mine occasionally wakes crying in morning I wouldn't leave him to - I'd get him up and have him play whilst I wash etc.. I think it's worth a 'concerned' question perhaps and see what response you get

If anyone heard my DS when he's having one of his tantrums you'd think he was being murdered or something. 3 year olds can be very dramatic for absolutely no reason

I second everyone who has said to gently ask her if child has been well recently, that's a nice conversation opener!

I would get a recording of the sound.

'accidentally' run into the dad on your way back from the gym when he is going to work and ask is your daughter OK she is crying a lot in the mornings after you leave...and when he says what do you mean - say I captured a recording to show to your wife but I have not had a chance to pop over yet - and show it to him.

You need to cover your bases about his wife or it looks like you are telling on her.

Please don't do this OP. Gosh some of you really come up with some strange ideas!