School coming to home to view sick child - Normal?

[CandlelightGlow]

I'm feeling really sensitive right now due to work stress so please be kind.

My 5 year old is off with chicken pox right now. He got the spots on Sunday, he's been quite poorly with it Monday - Tuesday, very sleepy, then very uncomfortable Weds waiting for the scabs to form. He's just started to feel better today but the school have an INSET day tomorrow anyway.

We just had a knock at the door, and it was a teacher from DS's school! He was very reluctant to come downstairs because he's only in his pants and thought the teacher was there to take him to school. She was very nice and said it's sad that they have to do this in this day and age but it's completely normal and they do it for everyone who's been off this length of time.

He's been off for 4 days? His older sister is at school so we've still done the school run every day. To be fair as it's an inset day tomorrow it will be over a week by the time he goes back on Monday. But I've never had a teacher come unannounced to our house to check on our child. Can someone reassure me it is actually normal and they don't think something bad of us! My poor boy is just ill. I've called him in and updated, updated again this morning saying he would be back on Monday!

I understand how stressful this must have been for you but safeguarding works much better if you follow the protocol regardless of how nice the family are.
Agree with this. Safeguarding should apply to everyone. The first rule of keeping children safe is that abuse/neglect/a safeguarding situation could happen anywhere.

I remember having an awful night with a poorly DC and I knew we were going to be at home in the morning, but I stupidly didn't set an alarm thinking I'm never up later than 8am. Obviously the day I did that we all slept in. I called in for DC, obviously acknowledging we were asleep and it was late. They said that they're glad they'd heard from us because they were about to phone us and if they don't get through they'd probably have done a welfare check.
For all they knew I could have passed out or fallen and knocked myself out, leaving DC would alone in the home. I think it's great they were so on the ball with safeguarding. The idea of giving them a mouthful about staying in their lane and then not being police/social workers/doctors didn't cross my mind.

And they were wrong on this occasion and it’s not an isolated case. A local school here harassed a family who had a son in hospital with a kidney issue. He died. A teenager, and he died, yet the school had been talking about attendance with the family up until a few weeks before his death. Box ticking bullshit and it’s shameful. They hide behind safeguarding to harass perfectly good parents to try to scare them into making their ill children attend. Since this happened to us, I’ve been in touch with many families that have dealt with the same. Yet they’re still failing the kids that need help so it isn’t working for anyone.

The worst case scenario for completing welfare checks doesn’t come anywhere close to the worst case scenario of not completing them, and completing them to the very letter of the school’s safeguarding policy.
I understand that’s going to upset some adults but, sorry, I just don’t care. The parents can ring the school and slag me off and put in official complaints. The other staff can nod along in sympathy or even agreement. I’d still carry on doing my job.
Working in safeguarding isn’t about pleasing adults 🤷🏻‍♀️

But I did keep the school updated in a timely manner. Safeguarding was applied, my son was seen by other professionals regularly, which the LEA and some school staff said was fine. His absences were covered by medical notes and reports to the school. My partner and I had meetings with the school on many occasions as well as phone calls.

Our son was very, very ill. It’s taken years to get him anywhere near back to full health. This was never about a genuine welfare concern, it was about attendance and ticking their boxes, no real care from the SLT or welfare staff at all.

His teachers were fab though, as most teachers are. They genuinely cared about his health, phones to check on him, did their best to keep him up to speed with GCSE work, sent lesson info home, and he passed his GCSEs with all 7, 8 and 9 grades thanks to those teachers and his own determination.

And he’s a lovely person with compassion for others, so although at the time he was very upset about the schools attitude, he’s better than they are. And he knows we had his back. Our relationship with our son is very strong. Not sure I could say the same if I went against his wishes and let a stranger in his bedroom to view him whilst he slept. He’d possibly never have trusted us again if we had let him down at the hardest time of his life and I wouldn’t have blamed him. Or maybe I should have forced him into school when he was being sick or was exhausted. 🙄

No time for this shit at all.

Well you won’t get in my house to view my child asleep in bed so you won’t be doing your job here. 😊

That's crazy, I would not be happy with that. It does not happen at all in the schools in my local authority. I would be contacting the head about policy

For all they knew I could have passed out or fallen and knocked myself out, leaving DC would alone in the home. I think it's great they were so on the ball with safeguarding. The idea of giving them a mouthful about staying in their lane and then not being police/social workers/doctors didn't cross my mind.

But you didn’t! And if we are going for less likely occurrences, that scenario could have just as easily have happened in the school holidays when nobody in your child’s school would have been interested.

But the way you’re going on, it seems like safeguarding is about bumbling along ticking boxes and inconveniencing families incase you happen upon a problem.

Not sensible, targeted, fact based visits. You’re justifying a school needing to see a child, despite the fact that he’d bed seen by a doctor the day before

Oh yes. Of course. That’s all it was.
It absolutely made my dreams come true to do home visits. Absolutely nothing else I could have spent my time doing.

But you didn’t! And if we are going for less likely occurrences, that scenario could have just as easily have happened in the school holidays when nobody in your child’s school would have been interested.
It doesn't matter that I didn't!

The first rule of safeguarding is it could happen anywhere and they're expecting to see my child in term time. They're not expecting to see my child in the holidays. My DC not being there when expected does warrant some following up.

Schools have a legal duty towards children to safeguard them within their roles as places of education.

No system is right all of the time. Systems and policies should be reviewed and where they're not effective they should be changed. No system is going to be 100% right, but most organisations will do the best they can.

If annoying some over-sensitive adults means fewer children come to harm, I'm more than happy for school to be a minor inconvenience to me and for the frothy moaning adults to be annoyed.

yes this happens if any child is off for more than about 3 days in a row at our primary school too. even if they generally have excellent attendance, happened to us with dd a few years ago when she had tonsillitis she always had perfect attendance and no welfare concerns it's just something they do at our school. to be honest I think it's to check up on parents that are pretending their child is ill but actually taking them on holiday and trying to avoid the fine.

If annoying some over-sensitive adults means fewer children come to harm, I'm more than happy for school to be a minor inconvenience to me and for the frothy moaning adults to be annoyed.

Those over sensitive, frothy, moaning parents with extremely ill children. And the children themselves. Yeah, who gives a fuck about how they’re feeling. 😅

Come back to me when your child is seriously ill, you’re in and out of hospital with them, or attending 1-2 appointments a week with them, coping with their health issues and their worries as well as your own, all whilst keeping your other child at their school and you’re being harassed by the school staff who couldn’t give a fuck about your child, often for medical evidence that you have already provided or to ‘view’ your child that has already been ‘viewed’ by someone who could make a better assessment about their health than a welfare officer.

I also wonder what looking at my sleeping 15 year old in bed could have told them about his welfare. That’s he’s alive at best. Because presuming they wouldn’t have removed a duvet cover from a sleeping 15 year old child, (can I even presume that?) he could have been covered in bruises and cuts if we were beating him and hiding him away. Like I say, box ticking bullshit. Viewing a sleeping child covered by a duvet would tell them next to nothing about the welfare of that child.

@BalletBoss

and you’re being harassed by the school staff who couldn’t give a fuck about your child, often for medical evidence that you have already provided or to ‘view’ your child that has already been ‘viewed’ by someone who could make a better assessment about their health than a welfare officer.

Your child attends a shit school 🤷‍♀️

The SLT is full of arseholes, but the teachers are great, very supportive and on the whole really seem to care about the kids. A few of them went above and beyond for my son, it’s never really the teachers that are behind these sort of shit procedures though, they just want to teach. My son has thankfully left now and is at university and doing well.

My daughter is still at the school, she’s happy with good relationships with friends and teachers and predicted high grades for all subjects. We’d be reluctant to move her unless she wanted to which is unlikely.

But you didn’t! And if we are going for less likely occurrences, that scenario could have just as easily have happened in the school holidays when nobody in your child’s school would have been interested.

It doesn't matter that I didn't!

But you are the one that came up with the extreme ‘what if’ scenario. The one that could happen at any time of the year, not just the 75% of the year that kids armrest expected in school.

It’s not a problem schools following up when there is a genuine concern; of course not. In OP’s case, her DC had a common but nasty childhood illness which she reported to the school the first day. We all know it will take a week (best case scenario) to get better, so there was no need to visit or see her child.

that is your case @BalletBoss but for goodness sake this does not apply to ALL Children so please dont berate safeguarding in general.

you may not have liked what happened to you but so many children need welfare checks, it is wrong to raise your case

But you are the one that came up with the extreme ‘what if’ scenario. The one that could happen at any time of the year, not just the 75% of the year that kids armrest expected in school.

It’s not a problem schools following up when there is a genuine concern; of course not. In OP’s case, her DC had a common but nasty childhood illness which she reported to the school the first day. We all know it will take a week (best case scenario) to get better, so there was no need to visit or see her child.

Ok so the whole point of safeguarding is to ask 'what if'. It's not about being extreme.

Schools expect to see children during term time. They do not expect to see children during the holidays.

If we take your idea that because bad things can happen in the holidays schools should abandon their legal safeguarding duty then great. I guess you're also fine with us:
not reporting low level concerns in term time because worse could happen at weekends
not recording changes in a child that could form part of a safeguarding jigsaw because they might also be like that in the holidays
not get involved in anything for term times because considering the what if situations is silly when so much could happen in the holidays

The OP's school has an attendance policy. The OP didn't inform the school in line with policy because they were too busy. The SAHD also didn't inform the school either for whatever reason. They also seem incapable of getting their child to school on time. We also have no idea what else is going on or what else might have been said in real life. The school has made the decision that it fits their policy to do a welfare call, a call that could have easily been avoided probably if the two parents had just been in touch to report the absences.

I guess you're also fine with us:
not reporting low level concerns in term time because worse could happen at weekends

not recording changes in a child that could form part of a safeguarding jigsaw because they might also be like that in the holidays

not get involved in anything for term times because considering the what if situations is silly when so much could happen in the holidays

No I’m absolutely fine with you reporting low level concerns during term time as that is the best you can do. However, I don’t believe a child who was attending school on Friday, whose mum phones up on Monday to say he has chickens pox (a common childhood illness taking a week to recover from) is a cause for concern if he has not returned to school by Thursday. I don’t think their slight tardiness or failure to ring daily for an illness that never gets better over a day makes it any more of a low level concern.

No I’m absolutely fine with you reporting low level concerns during term time as that is the best you can do. However, I don’t believe a child who was attending school on Friday, whose mum phones up on Monday to say he has chickens pox (a common childhood illness taking a week to recover from) is a cause for concern if he has not returned to school by Thursday. I don’t think their slight tardiness or failure to ring daily for an illness that never gets better over a day makes it any more of a low level concern
I also don't think chicken pox is a concern.

But I do think from a safeguarding perspective that if a child is absent and then there's no contact in line with policy it has to become a concern because safeguarding policies don't work if we say "yeah they've not called in, and policy says we need contact, but they told us that it was chickenpox so we'll ignore the lack of contact and roll into a long weekend without an update, leaving a child unseen for over a week".

In the OP's situation the child is likely entirely fine and is just poorly with chickenpox.
For another child the phonecall for chickenpox could be an easy way to try and bluff an extended absence.

Without following up, how does a school say that they're taking appropriate steps to keep children safe, which is their legal responsibility?
It becomes a case of safeguarding procedures only apply to certain families based on random and non-transparent criteria (eg. whatever the person on the desk thinks of the family/whether the family live in a nice area or not/whether mum is on the PTA and dad gave a generous donation to the new play equipment, whether the teacher and TA think the family are a nice family or not, whether the teacher/TA thinks mum doesn't look scrubbed up on the school run?) and that is not a good place to be in.
The first rule of safeguarding is that a child could be at risk anywhere. That's what safeguarding policies are based on. Not the feelings of adults who don't want to be inconvenienced, not the feelings of adults who think nice people like them should be exempt because families like theirs are the wrong type of families to ask questions to.

To confirm, our ringing/messaging in was fine and not a problem. I've messaged in before as the phone system is also automated anyway. I pondered whether that might be a reason for the visit while I was in a bit of a fuzz but it was just a blanket policy (confirmed by school and other parents)

I've also messaged for previous short term absence (say, DD has temp so phone in on day 1, message on day 2). It's just not an issue the way it has been taken up by some posters, our school has a specific reception option to message and they reply to confirm, it's not like I'm messaging class teachers hoping they would pick it up. If they hadn't confirmed by return message I would have called.

Sadly I don't have time to go all the way back through but it's really interesting how many further replies this thread got! I had moved on once I'd stopped being anxious and life has moved on, D S is much better. Thanks for all the words of support while I needed them!

I do think people take things crazily far though. Part of my anxiety is that I'm highly critical of myself so when I'm worried about anything I have a tendency to centre myself in the situation and assume something I have done is the cause. Me pointing out that because we are sometimes very slightly late because I walk 2 young children in daily from an out of catchment house has become "incapable of getting to school on time"

When I'm not feeling anxious I can be rational and resilient but I would ask you to remember how your words may impact and genuinely affect someone who is already struggling.

CandlelightGlow

If it helps OP, I used to think some of the policies and warnings were over the top before I worked in the field. I remember volunteering and sitting in basic safeguarding training thinking "really???" to some of it.

Now I totally understand why policies have to consider what if and be applied to everyone and why schools have to follow up things. It's not because they're being accusatory to anyone, but because it's another layer to try to prevent children slipping through the net.

Up thread I mentioned that I rang in late with a poorly DC once and when I spoke to them they they had me on the list to call because they hadn't heard. If I'd not called and they hadn't heard when they phoned, they'd have done a visit. It wasn't personal to me, nor would it have been overkill, but I can imagine others without safeguarding experience might take it personally.

But @BalletBoss son had been seen by doctors regularly!!!!! It makes me so cross!!!

The comments about them doing it to check the child’s not gone on holiday with parents is ridiculous. Let’s check on our teachers each time they have time off send someone into their room to see them !

I’ve already said that since this happening I’ve spoken to a lot of families who were treated similarly, so yes, I’ll talk about it. You don’t get to tell me not to raise our case.

Interestingly, the school did make some changes afterwards as they admitted their procedure was problematic. And some of the staff were spoken to about their attitude apparently.

Many kids do need welfare checks but the more time they waste on situations like ours, they’re not seeing kids or parents that do need help.

Safeguarding should never be a box ticking exercise but that’s exactly what it has become in many schools and that should be raised.

Again, tell me what viewing my child asleep in bed would have told them about his welfare other than he is alive. For an at risk child, it would not help that child at all.

@BalletBoss in what capacity have you spoken to a lot of families who were treated similarly, so yes, I’ll talk about it.

parents at your children’s school?