AIBU for worrying about the removal of WCA for benefits?

[XenoBitch]

According the Budget today, the Work Capability Assessments are being scrapped.
Initially, it sounds good. When you read into it, the only people who will be found unfit for work are also those who are disabled. To claim the 'health element' of UC (which would be the current LCW/LCWRA groups), you will need to also be in receipt of PIP.
Anyone who has tried to apply for PIP knows what a gruelling and undignified process it is. Many try, and give up. Many don't bother at all.
The weird thing here is that you can claim PIP, but also work. So how can PIP be the gateway benefit to claiming out of work benefits? It makes zero sense.
I am wondering what the various disability/mental health charities will make of this in the coming days.

For those of us who are in the ESA support group, or UC LCWRA, and not on PIP, this is a worrying time. With Hunt also saying there will be tougher sanctions on benefit claimants, the new measures will be causing a huge amount of stress.

God almighty.

I was expecting them to make some sort of hash of it - but that's spectacular.

As you point out, PIP and ESA/UC are not for the same thing. That's why they are separate benefits in the first place...

I was hoping they were gong to raise the income threshold for Carers Allowance, alas seems not so back to the bottom rung for us, not that we've ever been any more than the lowest, least thought about people.

It sounds rather arse over tit

Yes it doesn't make sense at all, plenty of people claim PIP but work, will they all now be able to apply for LCWRA and automatically be approved? And those who are eligible for LCWRA but have been denied PIP are screwed?

It doesn't make sense at all. many will be short term ill and won't qualify for PIP but won't get extra money for months on end if at all and will be surviving on the pittance that is basic UC or ESA assessment rate. People on PIP who can work will get earnings, the extra health payment ( if they qualify for UC ) and PIP on top and will be hugely better off even though they are able to work, although I appreciate they may be limited in the hours they can work, but so are many others for other reasons. It's just going to create a huge amount of further suffering for some people in some situations. It's almost like returning to the severe disability premium of legacy benefits where being awarded PIP becomes the passport to a decent amount to live off. So many people have to go to appeal to be awarded PIP and that can take a year and now absolutely everyone will be trying to get PIP which will slow things down for those that do actually qualify. Lets hope it doesn't come in for years if at all.

I guess a lot of people are not bothering even to claim Carers allowance now, and rather claiming just the Uc carers element which has no earnings threshold. I guess it's possible a small group of people who don't qualify for UC because they have a higher earning partner who would benefit from this.

I think this government have some cute idea that if they take money away from people their own current draconian system says are too ill to work fulltime or even work at all, then those people will magically rise up and join the workforce.

Total failure to grasp that – fraudsters aside – most people receiving ESA / disability-related UC aren't claiming as an alternative to working. They're claiming as an alternative to dying.

Take away that ESA/UC and those without family money will die.

Employers tend not to be too keen on people who need unpredictable amounts of time off recovering from epileptic fits, or who can only do max 3 hours a week, again unpredictably. And 3 hours a week doesn't exactly pay the bills.

My work place deals with people with addictions long term .A lot of these people are on long term ESA for years and years and often PIP too. many will never work. Even with the amounts of money they have coming in, we still have to distribute food parcels etc.

I think having an earning partner is the assumption for Carers Allowance but the reality for a lot of Carers is we're on our own, no DP, too busy caring to find one, too broke to afford a sitter to go out more than twice a year, then after years of that too knackered, old and ugly to be attractive to any potential partner.

The only way I can earn money is by being self-employed but it can be sporadic and some weeks I've just got CA coming in. But it would be really helpful if there was some leeway in what I could earn before I lost my only 'safety net'. Currently £132pw nett earnings rising to £139 for 23-24.

If you don't need the NI credits that come form claiming carers allowance you might be better off just claiming Universal credit unless you ahve savings over 16k. You can still get the Uc cares element and if earnings are variable, your Uc amount each month will adjust. There is no earnings threshold with the Uc carers element.

This basically removes contribution based disability benefits does it not?

If you have a working partner you can claim ESA conts based in your own right without their wage affecting it.

that’s not the case with UC as far as I’m aware?

By the time this comes into effect, there will be no ESA. Migration to UC will be complete.

New style ESA is paid alongside or instead of UC though - not everyone is migrating on to UC itself. Certainly that’s been the case so far (one of my DDs has been migrated over to new style - when she briefly claimed UC on top they deducted the new style ESA from her UC).

Hopefully the contributions based side will still exist - if it’s scrapped that will a major issue for a long of long term sick and disabled people.

@YetMoreNewBeginnings I think they will eventually scrap all ESA, even contribution based. That's why they are saying that the only type of assessment will be PIP.

I applied for ESA back in 2017.. was a no... my area is UC only. Some are still mixed (as in you can apply for contributions ESA and also claim UC). Eventually, all areas will be UC only.

So by the time this new measure comes in ( I read 2026/2027 at the earliest, 2029 at the latest), then everyone will be on UC anyway/

new style ( contributions based ) ESA is seperate to UC and can be claimed alongside Uc in any areas ? There is unlikely to be a time when contributions based ESA won't exist. It is income related ESA which is being completely phased out not contributions based.

I know, when I've had no work coming for a few weeks I've resorted to claiming UC and found they take off £ for £ my Carers Allowance, regarding it as 'unearned income' (according to who?!) and the Carers Element of UC is less than CA. I'm sure there's a 'sweet spot' that would work better but haven't found it yet.

And my local Council are really archaic in their approach to CTS, currently recalculating every month if you claim UC, so after a good month they'll take chunks out of my bank account; currently I'm paying £0 as they were overpaid so much.

Savings above 16k? Hardly, just a rapidly decreasing 'chimney repair fund'.
I'm 60 and fully paid up and more on my NI. I spent ages looking for a paye job, got close a few times, but found I'd best spend my time earning money.
And I do still have caring responsibilities to fit work around, not the other way

It would just be easier if the income thresholds for CA were increased and an earnings taper so that CA was reduced if earnings increased rather than cut off completely if you go even just £1 over the earnings threshold.

I don’t think that’s right - it’s certainly not what the gov website suggests here where you can still apply for it.

People with sufficient NI credits can still apply for contribution based ESA according to this. And it says nothing about areas.

www.gov.uk/guidance/new-style-employment-and-support-allowance

If you are claiming income based then it’s UC - although according to that link people can ‘top up’ conts based new style ESA with UC, there is no longer any income based ESA.

Scrapping that contribution based element would mean no one who gets ill or disabled who has a working partner would be able to claim anything other than PIP.

Ah, I thought the aim was full UC everywhere. The different ESA confuses me.. and how you can be on both ESA and UC, but I gather one is deducted from the other?
Still, when this new rule comes in, you will have to be on PIP to claim anything apart from the Job seeking element anyway.

Yes, you are right. My dad was on ESA and my mum worked, so I guess he was on the contribution based ESA?

This is going to be a whole fat mess when the new rules come in.

That’s what I’m thinking.

it’s PIP and UC only then anyone with a working partner or savings won’t qualify for any income replacement. It’ll be pip alone, if they qualify.

Which will be a massive impact on families where someone has to give up work suddenly. It’s already impact enough, and mostly far from completely replaced by the £400ish a month contribution based ESA, but that’s better than nothing.

I am concerned this plan is a back door removal of conts based benefits.

Yes.

You should also look into if you were misinformed in 2017.

That is the case anyway... you can't claim UC if your partner earns too much.

This new rule will mean a single person living alone wont be able to claim the 'health element' of UC unless they are also claiming PIP

They will have to live off less than £400 a month and be expected to look for work with threat of sanctions otherwise.

Misinformed in 2017?

I rang the number to claim to ESA and after I said my postcode, was told it was UC only. Not a lot I can do about that.

My point is that you can currently claim new style ESA if your NI contributions qualify you. It doesn’t matter how much your partner earns.

This is my entire point.

Many disabled and sick people claim ESA (new and old style still - old style is going but there has been no official announcement that new style is also being scraped) based on their NI conts in the last couple of years.

The can claim it regardless of saving or partner to replace their lost income.