AIBU for worrying about the removal of WCA for benefits?

[XenoBitch]

According the Budget today, the Work Capability Assessments are being scrapped.
Initially, it sounds good. When you read into it, the only people who will be found unfit for work are also those who are disabled. To claim the 'health element' of UC (which would be the current LCW/LCWRA groups), you will need to also be in receipt of PIP.
Anyone who has tried to apply for PIP knows what a gruelling and undignified process it is. Many try, and give up. Many don't bother at all.
The weird thing here is that you can claim PIP, but also work. So how can PIP be the gateway benefit to claiming out of work benefits? It makes zero sense.
I am wondering what the various disability/mental health charities will make of this in the coming days.

For those of us who are in the ESA support group, or UC LCWRA, and not on PIP, this is a worrying time. With Hunt also saying there will be tougher sanctions on benefit claimants, the new measures will be causing a huge amount of stress.

If you were entitled to contributions based ESA then you may have been misinformed.

There are no areas on the governments website listed as not being allowed to claim new style ESA.

I am not sure what you want me to prove. I rang the line to claim ESA.. and after telling them my postcode was told I could not claim it.. it was UC only.
My area has been full UC for years. No new style ESA, no ESA at all.. only UC.
I was pointed to the UC claim website.

I’m not asking you to prove anything.

I’m telling you - and the link in my post will confirm it - that the person who told you there was no new style ESA in your area was wrong.

If you were entitled to income based UC there’s a chance it will have made no difference to you.

However, if you had a partner or savings or something then the person who told you that could have made an error that cost you money (if you’d have qualified for contributions based).

Im not remotely saying you did something wrong. I’m saying it sounds very much like you spoke to someone who misinformed you. As happens with them.

Didn't speak to anyone, it was all automated. No ESA where I live, only UC.

@YetMoreNewBeginnings is correct, where you live has no impact on whether you can claim New Style ESA. Maybe you rang the enquiry line for income-based ESA not New Style ESA.

You can claim New style ESA wherever you live as others have correctly pointed out. It sounds like you tried to claim income related ESA which has been replaced by UC.

There is nowhere in the UK where you cannot claim new style ESA if you have the NI contributions.

If you were able to claim the right amount of UC it’s fine.

I only highlighted it because of the potential that someone could have been missing out on £100ish a week that they were entitled to.

They basically say in the report that they want to 'help people' (ie force) get into work. The same thing for forcing people who work part time due to being carers or health issues. Their own research showed people usually had good reasons to work less hours or not at all but they didn't use the research and instead just want to force everyone into any kind of work in the guise of it being the best for everyone all the time.

They don't want to place people in a group which removes them from looking for work. In their eyes there is always some work for everyone.

But DLA/PIP and ESA are completely different benefits given for different reasons.

Many on DLA/PIP work and always have. It's for the extra help that long term sick/disabled people might need - whether with care or mobility. The criteria to receive it are very specific.

To receive you need to have suffered x/had additional needs for a specified time, and it is considered that you will continue to suffer from whatever/have additional needs for an x amount of time.

www.gov.uk/pip

ESA, however it's paid, is for those considered unable to work for whatever length of time. They may not be entitled to PIP, but that still wouldn't automatically mean they could reliably work.

That's why the current two assessments are completely different.

ESA is contribution or income based (means tested). UC is means tested. PIP is universal and non means tested.

www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance

I can't see that you can mix and match them both - PIP can take many months for an award, especially with appeal. This reform will fall apart very quickly.🙄

@Zebedee55 Everything you say is correct, that's why the government knows exactly what they are doing. There will be no choice but to drag yourself to work, in any job you can get, even if you aren't well, physically or mentally, unless you have been awarded the notoriously very hard to get PIP.

And if they do completely scrap ESA then you’d own NI contributions will mean zilch if you have a partner or savings as that will mean no UC award.

This is terrifying me. I just feel like dying now.

Me too. Feel suicidal at the thought of this.

The change hasn’t been made yet and it’s going to take whole new legislation so if they do make it then there’s time between now and then for governments to change.

Try not to worry.

as it stands people absolutely can claim conts based new style ESA anywhere in the UK.

I don’t understand this. I’ve just had my PIP application denied but I’m on LCWRA on UC due to depression and anxiety and I’ve just been referred for an ASD assessment. I currently struggle to leave the house without panic attacks. I’m on various medications which keep me alive but barely functional. I have weekly counselling. I struggle to sleep at night and wake short of breath with my heart pounding at multiple times through the night. I can’t manage to work at the moment. I’m trying my best to get better but it’s not working right now. I’m so scared about how I will manage to live like this. I feel like I may as well give up now.

@Darthwazette Please try not to worry. Nothing will change for years yet, they are saying 2026/2027 for new claimants and 2029 for existing ones. Can you appeal the PIP decision?

Thank you for replying. When I looked it up the government seemed to be saying they wanted to change things asap. I don’t process things very well when anxious.

I am appealing the PIP. They didn’t give me a face to face assessment because they deemed it too risky because of my difficulties but then my Gp sent them a very basic report with little evidence so they said they didn’t have enough evidence to grant the PIP.

It’s always much better with appeal because the panel will ask questions.

My DDs appeal was done not-in-person because she wasn’t fit and they still did it by phone and made sure they asked the questions needed.

@Darthwazette How annoying about the GP. Can you get anyone else who knows you to write a letter in support of your application? A carer, friend or family member who sees what your day to day struggles are? You probably know all this anyway. I, too, have heard the tribunal panel are more sympathetic. Again, these white paper changes hopefully won't be coming in for a few years, so it gives you time to get a successful PIP award. Good luck.

I know.

We're not dead yet – but the life we do have is spent in fear.

All because of these repeated, stupid, political-footballing "initiatives".

I used to get DLA years ago and when I was awarded it, it meant my Income Support increased significantly as I got several disability premiums on top. This system sounds a bit similar. For those who do get PIP (apparently 74% of UC LCWRA or support group ESA get PIP as well) it will be easier as they'll get the health element automatically and not have to worry about the WCA as well. My autistic DS is in this category (actually it's me that will find it easier, as his appointee as I have to deal with the forms)

I get PIP for myself and also deal with my DS's forms so I know how hard it can be to get it, but the chances of getting it are good if you use an advice agency and have a decent amount of evidence, and go ahead to appeal if not awarded initially.

@RubyGrape but what about the other 26% that don't get PIP? They will lose about 350 per month from their UC payment. How are they supposed to survive? PIP is notoriously hard to get and not everyone has someone to help them apply for it. I hope, that if this does go ahead, they will make PIP much easier to claim, but I'm not holding my breath.

It's OK to say go ahead and appeal, but appeals can take a year to go before a tribunal and will probably take even longer when everyone wakes up to these new rules and applies for PIP. What happens during that appeal waiting time, will sick and disabled people be forced to work or they will be sanctioned? And how will they survive without the extra LCWRA payment of approx £350 that they currently receive, whilst waiting for a PIP tribunal date?

It’s ridiculous and a nightmare that appealing, and waiting, is basically part of the process.

When my DD was appealing her ESA group she had to attend the job centre and the staff there were just like “no idea what we’re meant to do with you - nowhere we can send you”. In the end they put her on phone appointments and even the job centre guy thought it was ridiculous and used to say to her “have you been magically cured? If not I’ll call you in a fortnight…”

Benefits and Work have a couple of good articles up.

WCA to be abolished, claimants to be sanctioned by bots

Spring budget and Health and Disability White Paper updates

Main takeaway: "We've published some UC health element FAQs here.
The most important takeaway at the moment is that it's likely to be - at the very least - 6 years before existing UC/ESA claimants are affected."

By which time the tories are hopefully history though fuck knows these days. It's a really worrying time for anyone with a disability, I'm one of them, but they haven't even managed a full rollout of UC a decade after it was introduced.