Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be at my absolute wits end with my 5 yo

52 replies

Redandyellowelephant · 15/03/2023 21:37

When I say I despair I mean I am really in absolute despair and have no idea what to do anymore. I have tried absolute everything and I mean everything I have scoured all corners of the Internet looking for a solution and nothing works.

My 5yo will not go to sleep until 9/10 sometimes 11 o clock at night. He is then completely miserable and grumpy and acting like a hormonal teenager in the mornings and I absolutely dread it.

He is calling for me constantly throughout the evening saying he's sad because he misses grandma (despite talking to her thay day most times and seeing her weekly), asking me questions, messing around with whatever he can get his hands on (I've removed most toys) being noisy and what not. It's really not good for him because he is so so tired the next day. He bottles it all in at school then he can barley move off the sofa once home.

I'm a single parent who works nearly full time with no involvement from his dad and extremely limited family support.

I've tried:

-Story box with stories/podcasts/soothing sounds
-Magnesium tablets and a cream (separately).
-a reading lamp so he can read quietly/no reading lamp
-staying in with him to start (often makes him worse)
-we've had a steady wind down routine since baby which includes bath, story milk and bed
-earlier/later bed time
-gentle parenting techniques/strict parenting
-outright bribery

All these techniques I've been persistent with for a number of weeks as well. I have no time for myself not even an hour in the evening. I'm exhausted and drained and feel like this will just be forever (it's been over 2 years now). I have other chronic health problems but that's by the by at this point.

He has a fairly balanced diet and does swimming and one other club each week. We mix up activities on the weekend and he has a secure and balanced home life. The only thing I can think of is he is a slightly shy child but that's it.

Any help please???? I'm desperate

OP posts:
Duttercup · 15/03/2023 21:44

I really have no idea about kids this age but just giving your post a boost.

underneaththeash · 15/03/2023 21:44

Okay. Change all the clocks forward by an hour.
Pick him up and run around the park, home, reading book, TV whilst you make his tea (you eat later), bath and then bed. You read a story. Lights off.
if he won’t stay in his room get a dog gate.

all of mine have faffed around at bedtime at sometime.

MyMachineAndMe · 15/03/2023 21:46

Mine had a stair gate thing across the door and I would close that and leave the door open - not to stop him escaping but more as a barrier - and just let him read or play quietly until he was tired enough to sleep. He has adhd though and despite being tired, he struggles to fall asleep.

nokidshere · 15/03/2023 21:50

A friend of mine had similar problems with her child. She told him if he stayed in bed and went to sleep that the sleep fairy would come. Every night he did, she put 10p under his pillow. It worked (not every single night but most).

She did it for a year and said it was the best 36.50 she had ever spent.

Bunnyishotandcross · 15/03/2023 21:51

Have you tried being cross? Dc can know we get upset and mad imo!!
Him missing out because you are too tired might work. No park /shop /activities because you get no rest on an evening.. Doesn't always have to be nicey nicey chats!

Original poster
Redandyellowelephant · 15/03/2023 21:51

Thank you I like the clocks idea. I already eat later after he's in his bed which helps. I feep like he's more than faffing he's constantly questioning me all night about why I haven't had a bath/gone to bed/what I'm doing. It's like his mind is on 24/7. I've reiterated to him I'm the adult and he's the child and he's not to question what I'm doing etc. Tbh I can barely think straight I sort of accidently exploded st him just then and felt awful so now I've got a banging headache and just found out I've ran out of tea bags which is great.

OP posts:
LibrariansGiveUsPower · 15/03/2023 21:52

Clicks idea will backfire when you tell him to get ready for school an hour out!

Original poster
Redandyellowelephant · 15/03/2023 21:53

nokidshere · 15/03/2023 21:50

A friend of mine had similar problems with her child. She told him if he stayed in bed and went to sleep that the sleep fairy would come. Every night he did, she put 10p under his pillow. It worked (not every single night but most).

She did it for a year and said it was the best 36.50 she had ever spent.

Oh I haven't tried this one yet thank you!! I'll give it a go tomorrow he does like his piggy bank and always gets excited when he has coins to put in there

OP posts:
Botw1 · 15/03/2023 21:54

Have you tried ignoring him?

Original poster
Redandyellowelephant · 15/03/2023 21:55

Bunnyishotandcross · 15/03/2023 21:51

Have you tried being cross? Dc can know we get upset and mad imo!!
Him missing out because you are too tired might work. No park /shop /activities because you get no rest on an evening.. Doesn't always have to be nicey nicey chats!

I've tried being cross (on purpose and not on purpose) and he either doesn't take me seriously or he gets really upset and wound up and even worse (he can be very sensitive). I envy people who can just give their kids "the look" or a tone of voice and they do as they're told.

OP posts:
MunchMonster · 15/03/2023 21:55

Have you spoke to GP about it. He could be low on melotonin

Original poster
Redandyellowelephant · 15/03/2023 21:56

Botw1 · 15/03/2023 21:54

Have you tried ignoring him?

Tried ignoring him and I do most the time but he will just shout louder and louder until he's at screaming point then I have to go in as don't want to wake the neighbours!

OP posts:
StarDolphins · 15/03/2023 21:57

I had this for ages with my little girl, it’s like they get in a habit. The only things that worked for me was absolutely no sweet things at all after 2.30, nothing & loads of fresh air & activity after school so she was knackered & each night I brought the bedtime earlier by 30 mins. I remember starting it one Sunday, literally had her out ALL day.

I also had a rewards chart where she could earn things for consistently staying in her bed.

I also noticed she was picking up in my stress of her going to sleep, so I was saying ‘come on now, you’re going to be exhausted tomorrow’ & looking at the clock which was waking her up so I stopped that & now I say “doesn’t matter, you don’t need to sleep ifyou don’t want, just lying quietly is just as good” then she relaxes & falls asleep!

I also have a fan on until she falls asleep, the boring whirring of this def helped her!

PixieLaLa · 15/03/2023 21:57

I was also going to suggest GP for melatonin

Sleepless1096 · 15/03/2023 21:58

My eldest DC (also 5) doesn't like going to bed by himself so I just tell him that the baby and I are going to bed at 7.30 and turn off most of the lights downstairs. He soon comes up to lie next to us because that's a better option than staying downstairs alone in the semi-dark. I read the baby a story (usually something aimed at the 5yo) and that tempts him into bed. He's usually asleep within 10 minutes as he's actually tired. At which point I take the baby downstairs again.

Botw1 · 15/03/2023 21:59

Well you don't have to.

You're just reinforcing the behaviour.

Do your bed time routine. Explain before hand that it's now bed time, he is to go to bed and go to sleep. No more questions or chat.

And then don't interact with him.

The more attention you give him the more you're reinforcing the behaviour

Original poster
Redandyellowelephant · 15/03/2023 22:00

MunchMonster · 15/03/2023 21:55

Have you spoke to GP about it. He could be low on melotonin

This is my next port of call! Despite not doing much research on it I've been really reluctant to try him on medication as I feel like it's more geared towards children who have ADHD or something similar (so sorry if that's sounds ignorant). I don't suspect he has any kind of diagnosis but I'm not an expert.

He is a lovely and very affectionate little boy who is shy and occasionally anxious who loves giving and receiving love. I find he does put alot of pressure on himself to be "perfect" almost at school and I wonder if that's contributing

OP posts:
SoCunningYouCanStickATailOnItAndCallItAFox · 15/03/2023 22:03

I'll add another for the gp melatonin suggestion. It's the hormone that gives the body its sleep cue. Could be his isn't kicking in properly. Maybe do some googling around this aspect of sleep, there may be some natural triggers that you could help stimulate production.

Original poster
Redandyellowelephant · 15/03/2023 22:03

Botw1 · 15/03/2023 21:59

Well you don't have to.

You're just reinforcing the behaviour.

Do your bed time routine. Explain before hand that it's now bed time, he is to go to bed and go to sleep. No more questions or chat.

And then don't interact with him.

The more attention you give him the more you're reinforcing the behaviour

I've tried everything you've mentioned here and been persistent with it. He's had sleepovers with my mum and does the same thing there. I wouldn't be at this point if I hadn't tried an approach like this

OP posts:
Beamur · 15/03/2023 22:03

Bedtime is often when all the thoughts and worries of the day fill up little minds.
I think I might dig a little bit more about anything that might be bothering him. It sounds like he really doesn't want to be apart from you.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 15/03/2023 22:06

Could you pretend to be going to sleep too? If he has FOMO? Turn the lights off get in your pjs get in your bed. Tell him if he shouts you wont talk to him because its night time. If you end up going in just say ssshhhh its night time I want to sleep fake a yawn and go back to your room. Maybe he wont get up if he thinks he isnt missing out on anything

Original poster
Redandyellowelephant · 15/03/2023 22:06

StarDolphins · 15/03/2023 21:57

I had this for ages with my little girl, it’s like they get in a habit. The only things that worked for me was absolutely no sweet things at all after 2.30, nothing & loads of fresh air & activity after school so she was knackered & each night I brought the bedtime earlier by 30 mins. I remember starting it one Sunday, literally had her out ALL day.

I also had a rewards chart where she could earn things for consistently staying in her bed.

I also noticed she was picking up in my stress of her going to sleep, so I was saying ‘come on now, you’re going to be exhausted tomorrow’ & looking at the clock which was waking her up so I stopped that & now I say “doesn’t matter, you don’t need to sleep ifyou don’t want, just lying quietly is just as good” then she relaxes & falls asleep!

I also have a fan on until she falls asleep, the boring whirring of this def helped her!

Thank you so much for this! He is extremely energetic so it could be that he's just not getting it out enough in the day. Can I ask how you manage this in the darker months? I've found since he's started school it's hard to fit in lots of outside time before it gets dark when it's the winter. We don't have a garden which doesn't help!

He definitely loves his sleep as once he's asleep he's out for the whole night and doesn't like being woken at all in the mornings.

OP posts:
Maiyakat · 15/03/2023 22:08

This has just been published and might be helpful thesleepcharity.org.uk/information-support/children/childrens-sleep-ebook/

Atethehalloweenchocs · 15/03/2023 22:08

I think as long as he is getting attention he will keep this going. Warn the neighbours there may be a few loud nights and why. Enlist your son in solving the problem - tell him that his messing around is making him tired the next day and ask him what he thinks the solution is. He may not come up with much but if he has some buy in, you are more likely to succeed. Then once you have your plan, ignore him Remember the supernanny technique of putting him back to bed, turning off lights, taking away anything he is making a noise with, all without speaking to him.

Original poster
Redandyellowelephant · 15/03/2023 22:09

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 15/03/2023 22:06

Could you pretend to be going to sleep too? If he has FOMO? Turn the lights off get in your pjs get in your bed. Tell him if he shouts you wont talk to him because its night time. If you end up going in just say ssshhhh its night time I want to sleep fake a yawn and go back to your room. Maybe he wont get up if he thinks he isnt missing out on anything

This probably would work as when I get into bed he quietens right down. Only problem is when I do it too early he still stays awake for at least an hour meanwhile I'm starving and don't get the washing done all whole trying not to actually fall asleep. 😅

OP posts: