To be at my absolute wits end with my 5 yo

[Redandyellowelephant]

When I say I despair I mean I am really in absolute despair and have no idea what to do anymore. I have tried absolute everything and I mean everything I have scoured all corners of the Internet looking for a solution and nothing works.

My 5yo will not go to sleep until 9/10 sometimes 11 o clock at night. He is then completely miserable and grumpy and acting like a hormonal teenager in the mornings and I absolutely dread it.

He is calling for me constantly throughout the evening saying he's sad because he misses grandma (despite talking to her thay day most times and seeing her weekly), asking me questions, messing around with whatever he can get his hands on (I've removed most toys) being noisy and what not. It's really not good for him because he is so so tired the next day. He bottles it all in at school then he can barley move off the sofa once home.

I'm a single parent who works nearly full time with no involvement from his dad and extremely limited family support.

I've tried:

-Story box with stories/podcasts/soothing sounds
-Magnesium tablets and a cream (separately).
-a reading lamp so he can read quietly/no reading lamp
-staying in with him to start (often makes him worse)
-we've had a steady wind down routine since baby which includes bath, story milk and bed
-earlier/later bed time
-gentle parenting techniques/strict parenting
-outright bribery

All these techniques I've been persistent with for a number of weeks as well. I have no time for myself not even an hour in the evening. I'm exhausted and drained and feel like this will just be forever (it's been over 2 years now). I have other chronic health problems but that's by the by at this point.

He has a fairly balanced diet and does swimming and one other club each week. We mix up activities on the weekend and he has a secure and balanced home life. The only thing I can think of is he is a slightly shy child but that's it.

Any help please???? I'm desperate

Melatonin is your friend

OK well that's different to I stop ignoring him because he screams so I go in and speak to him.

If you've actually completely ignored him consistently every night for weeks, with no interaction, despite screaming, then I'd consider reaching out to the school and gp for advice

Also thank you to everyone who has replied and sorry for not replying to each message. Some more good ideas on here I will be trying and reporting back on!

If you've tried absolutely everything it's hard to know what to suggest! These things could help though:

Take him to the playground after school for at least an hour, whatever the weather. Waterproof overalls and wellies for everyone and set a timer so you don't peel off early. Damn it you are staying at that playground come hell or high water! This is a good thing done not only because it's physically tiring but because the exercise will release endorphins and calm any general anxiety.

Be mindful what you feed him for tea. Nothing too salty or high in sugar, and absolutely no artificial colours (pesto or Greek food, biscuits, cake or icecream give me terrible insomnia) Stick with fruit and yoghurt for pudding! Also cut out any squash for the same reason, water will do just fine.

No screens in the evenings - you want to step back from anything so stimulating. Audiobooks while he does jigsaws or colouring is a better way to wind down. Ideally the audiobooks should be simple ones aimed at younger children without any thrills that could raise those anxiety levels.

Put him to bed earlier and earlier. Assuming he goes to bed at 7:30 now and he's keeping going til 10, bring it back to 7:00, then 6:30. This way you have a good hour before 'lights out' where he can get anything he needs to off his chest. So bath-teeth-story-talking with you-lights out.

Black out blinds should help now it's starting to still be light outside, and a sunrise/sunset clock.

Open his bedroom window in the evening/overnight and get lots of nice cold air blowing in. Make his bed super snuggly with several blankets and maybe a hot water bottle, but you want the room air temperature fresh and cold. In Scandinavia they have the kids sleeping outside in minus 10 - they swear by the benefits. Not only should all that lovely oxygen help him settle but there's nothing like being in an icebox of a bedroom to encourage them to snuggle under the covers and stop getting out!

I love my weighted blanket, it's helped me enormously. Would highly recommend.

If he comes out of his room, just take him back. Maybe the first time you tell him softly 'Back to bed' and lead him back, but after that no interaction at all. You just put him straight back there, don't look at him, don't speak to him, just bed. It might take you 200 times a night for a week and it'll be stressful as fuck but eventually he's going to learn that it's just pointless getting up. You don't need to be cross, no telling him off or anything, just be as blank in every way as you can be and put him back. I think if you and any other caregivers are completely consistent with this he'll get back on track again really soon.

I reached out to the school and they weren't helpful at all, I will try the GP if I can't get anything else to work. I honestly didn't mean to sound so snappy I'm sorry

My 5YO gets separation anxiety and cant sleep but also wakes in the night. Ive made progress by saying I'll leave you for 2 minutes then come and check on you. Then 4, 6, 8, 10 minutes. That way he knows I'm around but he cant get out of bed. Ive been doing it for a couple of months and it's usually 4 or 6 minutes where he's asleep.
It's hard on your own but it will get easier

I'd also talk to him about what it feels like to 'fall asleep ' I know it sounds obvious but my little girl fought sleep for years because the sensation of falling asleep scared her. Weighted blankets are often good for anxious children (and adults) too..

Thank you so so much for this, I haven't tried the open window thing and I admit I'm naughty for not wanting to go out in the rain! I'll need to find someone to put a restrictor on his window as it opens all the way out and we're on the first floor x

Why don't you eat with him and tidy up etc before bed ? Then you don't have that added pressure. Then perhaps try 'going to bed' yourself and watch TV on a tablet with earphones, or read a book?

I sympathise. I have a 6yo who I have to lay with to get to sleep (up to 1 hour) and if he wakes in the night he gets in to bed with me.

I can't afford the shouting / crying though as I also have a baby so pick the path with the least resistance.

Another vote for the GP and melatonin. I know it worked wonders for a friend's daughter, and it works well for me when my mind is buzzing and I can't get to sleep.

Is there upset around his dad?

Lavender room spray

If there's room could you change his bedroom around, but if a change or let him choose how he wants it redecorated obviously money permitting

Could he have music on low throughout the night?

The 10p fairy sounds a good idea

yoga on YouTube, breathing techniques, relaxing techniques all kids versions

Diet? No sugar any things after 4pm

What about his water intake?

You can get herbal sprays you spray in your mouth to relax or the liquid roll on ones for his temples and wrists

Have you seen those stickers now for kids that look like regular stickers that apparently aid sleep

I ‘find’ a job that we need to do, my faves were posting a card/letter in the (furthest away!🤣) post box or walk the dog, or something from the shop & we’d walk, even in the dark! Or I would take her to the park straight after school & stay until 5pm - think it’s the fresh air that helps loads along with the exercise.

Start it on a weekend day/HT etc where you can keep him outdoors most of the day (park all morning, home for lunch, somewhere else in afternoon until tea) then put him to bed. Tell him it doesn’t matter if he goes to sleep but he has to relax his body & switch his mind off!

Eventually he’ll get in a new habit of earlier & going to sleep. It sounds like he’s struggling to drop off or isn’t tired enough.

I would also stop anything sweet from mid afternoon, this made a big difference too.

I feel for you, it’s so hard. I’m single & working too & all I want to do is sit, relax with a glass of Prosecco & watch Netflix once in a while! Instead, I’m like a headless chicken every day!

Oh dear OP sleep issues are a real ball buster! Out of interest, how much 'down' time does he have before bed? And I mean outside of bath/story time etc...I found with one of my boys that no matter what (super active day, great food, bath, story) the quiet time of laying down to sleep is when all his intrusive/anxious thoughts set in. The only suggestion I have is an earlier bed time and that you could do some chatting as in nice thoughts to have before bed (imagine a place that you could have everything you want, what would that look like etc... ) Repeating that over a few days may help divert his thoughts from being anxious to looking forward to imagining his happy place, sort of along the lines of CBT. He sounds like a well rounded happy little boy and it's so difficult when you are tired as well. I will say as troublesome as it is, it will just be a phase. It can rebound (went through this with my son at 6 and then again at 9 - but less fraught with a 9 year old! ) Defo seek the GP's advice as well.

Have you considered doing some child friendly deep breathing or meditation techniques with him? It sounds like he's having some difficulty calming his mind, and I know how that feels. He may not have the tools and techniques to actually be able to manage that yet, so perhaps try doing some meditation or breathing to help him settle down.

Stretching or yoga before bed might be a good option as well. Anything that gets him to be still, calm and focused.

Also a white noise machine, something he can focus on and listen to u til he drops off, that isn't as exciting and engaging as an audio book.

No upset about his dad from him as far as I'm aware. I don't divulge the details to him as it wouldn't be right. He thinks his dad is amazing and the best thing ever he says he misses him sometimes but I just say he's busy working really hard so he can visit and he seems pleased with the explanation. He definitely doesn't drink as much as I would like. His water bottle is full everyday after school and I've bought this up with the teachers but all they say is it's up to the children to know when they're thirsty. (He does genuinely need reminding as he gets himself so busy he forgets to drink).

I haven't tried any herbal sprays or anything no so will add that to my list!

Thank you to those who have mentioned yoga/relaxation etc we do enjoy listening and doing yoga together especially kids ones so maybe we will try that closer to bed time I'm future.

Again thank you everyone, I clearly haven't tried everything and I'm sure something will stick eventually! I'm hopeless at this mum stuff when do I get good at it like you guys 🤣

The Headspace app has a sleep section for children with different wind down meditations. It's not cheap but you might be able to get a free trial.

3 months on 5HTP from Holland and Barrett and my son sleeps 10 hours a night

It sorted him right out. We stopped it after 3 months as his sleep was great.

he can barely move off the sofa once home
but at 9/10 pm he is perky again?

I used to let them go to bed later and just go to bed with them at 8. I was a single parent too, so didn't have a bloke to worry about . Sorry, doesn't sound like much help tho 😔

That's not good the school can't try to help him remember to drink. My DD is rubbish at remembering (she is neuro diverse and executive function not brilliant) school helped her happily as her coping threshold was reduced when she was dehydrated. They did bottle on her desk all the time and every time the teacher looked in her direction or she answered a question, or something happened, she was told to sip, it became a habit to drink every activity change or whatever and they don't need to do it now.

My son was like you've described and none of the suggestions helped really either.
When he was 6 we realised he is autistic and the sleeplessness went hand in hand with that. Now I'm not saying that's the case for your child, just saying what it was for our son.
He is now about to start high school, really happy and settled and sleep sorted itself out over time with gentle support all round.
Melatonin is an allergy medication as far as I'm aware like an antihistamine, it isn't a guaranteed fix. We were actually encouraged to not go down that route as it is not without its drawbacks (having to take at a certain time each night, have to be asleep within a certain time or it won't really work etc) and the sleepy part is purely down to drowsiness being a side effect of the medication. So speak with your GP in the first instance as well as school for advice if you can.
School should be able to signpost you to a sleep specialist if required- we had help from Sleep Scotland for example.
Best of luck, you know yourself it's not something he's doing intentionally to piss you off but I also know it is very draining for you as the parent in the midst of it all. I do feel for you.

Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome is a thing: www.healthline.com/health/sleep-deprivation/delayed-sleep-phase-syndrome

I would talk to a GP and also ask about ADHD.

Also just to clarify, melatonin is not an ADHD medication, it’s just the hormone that we naturally produce to fall asleep and tablets are a synthetic version if someone doesn’t produce enough on their own.

In the meantime, instead of flogging a dead horse by getting him to wind down before he is able to let him do something that holds his focus in those bedtime hours instead and just accept his 10pm sleep time. Then let him have a 90 min nap after school. (My son (10, ADHD) just spent 90 mins hyper focused on his drawing app on a tablet, and has only just gone to sleep but with none of the angst and bother. Take the battle out of it - he’s not going to fall asleep before 10pm so you might as well work with it)

You're welcome! I've had sleep issues all my life (possibly on the spectrum too, but no diagnosis) so I can definitely empathise!

It all sounds very similar. Our DD now 9 has struggled all her life getting to sleep. She's a bit shy, sensitive and very affectionate.

It's anxiety. We too tried everything except melatonin. She is dyslexic but not on the spectrum and has been assessed. The only time she has gone to sleep at a reasonable time is when she's been jet lagged. These things have worked for us:

• the same routine - same bed, same time etc.
• the same audible story playing quietly in her room every night
• an extra hug, more reassurance but not discussing her anxieties
• telling her if she really can't get to sleep she just has to lie there
• if I get a visit after bedtime I give her a hug and say go to sleep. Nothing else. I always had to take her back and tuck her in. Now she takes herself back to bed.
• me being relaxed about it and taking the pressure off bedtime. She sensed my anxiety and that resulted in more coming down, calling out, checking where I was etc.
• a silicone night light that has 10 or so different colours that she finds calming.

I totally understand how frustrating and worn out you feel. I have another daughter who takes herself to bed and goes to sleep no problem. It's nothing you've done or not done it's just how they are.

Going to sleep between 9 and 10 doesn't sound so abnormal for this age. We have pjs on our 5 yo at 8.30 then do stories etc and lights are off by 9. He's probably asleep by 9.30; but wakes up naturally between 8am and 8.30 even on strike days/ weekends so it feels like he's getting the right amount of sleep.

I think its hard waking and getting up into a cold room in the winter months, that might be some of the grump?