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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think most of us will work to death?

242 replies

Fifi0000 · 15/03/2023 15:51

I was thinking retirement age is rising again. I'm now 30 my grandparents are late 80s and retired before I was born. They aren't wealthy , They have only started really slowing down health wise. I was thinking about this and very few of us will get a 30 year retirement. If the retirement age rises to 68 I'm dreading what it will be when I reach that age and my daughter. I do have an ok pension pot but I think the expectation will be very short retirements in poor health basically work until you drop.

OP posts:
Aposterhasnoname · 15/03/2023 18:14

Dotjones · 15/03/2023 15:58

YANBU they're trying to get back to the idea of work until you're about to die and maybe have a couple of years hanging around until you do.

The problem is that the boomer generation were able to acquire wealth to a degree that is not widely possible these days. A boomer colleague retired recently at 54 mainly because they had a final salary pension that the company bought them out of (millions) and because they'd bought a house at 21 so were mortgage free by the time they were 40. An impossible dream these days.

You don’t know what a boomer is do you?

MsJD · 15/03/2023 18:16

When I was at school (late 70s), our economic teacher told us that by the time we reached his age, people would work for fun and the working week would be 3 days or less. He imagined that machines would do all the work and we would all be living lives full of leisure.

Weedoormatnomore · 15/03/2023 18:16

Mammyloveswine · 15/03/2023 16:28

My mam died at 67 so I'll probs die before retirement tbh!

My mum thought that as so many direct female relations died before they got to 63. 65 this year🤞 has to wait another 18mths for her pension.

AllMouthButNoTrousers · 15/03/2023 18:22

My mum also died young

Just enjoy life while you can. Yes we're likely to have to keep on working if the job market will still have us!

fdgdfgdfgdfg · 15/03/2023 18:22

I think it's unlikely that most of us will be working at all by the time we hit retirement age. I honestly think that the next 20 years are going to be revolutionary when it comes to work. The leaps forwards in the last 2 years in AI coupled with the last 10 years of robotics technology are going to mean that so much stuff is automated.

And I'm not just talking about the obvious candidates like manufacturing. I'm talking lorry drivers, nurses, artists, composers, web developers, farmers, doctors, lawyers, care workers, marketing departments, journalists, architects etc...

In 20 years I truly believe that there will not be a 10th of the jobs available that there are now. And once that happens one of two things has to happen. Either universal basic income, or the majority of us starve while the rest live like kings.

I'm really hoping it's option 1.

Daleksatemyshed · 15/03/2023 18:22

Unfortunately Covid hit the economy very hard, and the Government has to get funds from the taxpayers, so they are going to want as many people working for as long as possible. It's a hard truth but everyone wants a free NHS, free schooling, free childcare and regardless of which party is in charge they still need to fund all these things. My council tax bill has just risen by 5% and a lot of what it pays for are things I don't use, and have never used, but that's irrelevant, someone has to pay for schools and social services

Clioma · 15/03/2023 18:23

Dotjones · 15/03/2023 15:58

YANBU they're trying to get back to the idea of work until you're about to die and maybe have a couple of years hanging around until you do.

The problem is that the boomer generation were able to acquire wealth to a degree that is not widely possible these days. A boomer colleague retired recently at 54 mainly because they had a final salary pension that the company bought them out of (millions) and because they'd bought a house at 21 so were mortgage free by the time they were 40. An impossible dream these days.

People love to quote 'Boomers' and previous generations as having it all. I'm in my late 50s and a bit too young to be a boomer. I bought my first house with my DH in my 20s. Within months interest rates had rocketed to nearly 15%. We literally had no money. We had to sell our car to pay bills and we never went out. I had to take a job in a pub in the evenings after working all day. Within 2 years we had to move for work reasons and ended up in negative equity because house prices had slumped. I couldn't sleep at night for worry. It was a terrible time and it took years to get back on our feet.

Life is easier now because I've worked hard and saved all my life. I'll still have to work to 67.

But people thinking it's all been a bed of roses for everyone in future generations are deluded and it's insulting.

GlassBunion · 15/03/2023 18:28

CatsGinAndTwiglets · 15/03/2023 15:57

The current retireds didn’t pay enough into the system so the rest of us will work til we drop after they’ve finished their long holidays and art classes.

Does light bend round you?

My husband worked for 42 years and, for a large part , payed higher taxes and NI.
I worked for 39 years albeit a brief period where I stayed at home... wrap around childcare wasn't available.

We have now got savings to live on. I'm not apologising for it.

Why should we go back to work? We don't need to ... we rely on our own money.

CatsGinAndTwiglets · 15/03/2023 18:28

pinkySilver · 15/03/2023 17:03

Those people on the cruises didn't have any paid childcare, possibly no mat leave, very little sick pay, were much less likely to access health care when young and only went to the GP when really ill etc etc. That's not a prid pro quo but it's important to remember that not all older people have had a fun-filled easy time on someone else's dollar.

People live longer now - they rarely drop dead two years after retiring - which they used to do. It's good to work - we should all be contributing in whatever way we can. And we should be preparing for when we can't rather than expecting someone else to do it.

Setting up older people against younger people doesn't help us as a society though. And none of knows what's in store.

They didn’t need paid mat leave or childcare because the wife was at home or doing a couple of hours a week!! Plus they bought a nice size family house for three times one salary, got their uni education paid for and retired on nice pensions! I don’t know a single pensioner who is worse off than us with two full time working adults in the household.

CatsGinAndTwiglets · 15/03/2023 18:34

neilyoungismyhero · 15/03/2023 17:10

I can assure you I'm not lounging about on your dollar and I don't know anyone who is.

Show quote history

Entirely private savings then? Cos the state pension is paid for by the CURRENT tax payers. Tax from years ago was spent at the time!

DuvetDownn · 15/03/2023 18:34

I think some people have definitely got their timelines muddled up the way they are talking about people in their mid to early fifties. Boomers! I’m 54, my DM is a boomer!!

RedHelenB · 15/03/2023 18:37

MsJD · 15/03/2023 18:16

When I was at school (late 70s), our economic teacher told us that by the time we reached his age, people would work for fun and the working week would be 3 days or less. He imagined that machines would do all the work and we would all be living lives full of leisure.

Exactly, and look how that turned out Capitalism will have us working in some capacity or other even if there is a huge increase in AI and robotics.

Original poster
Fifi0000 · 15/03/2023 18:38

I didn't want to start a fight between different generations. There does seem to be a reluctance to admit that things are not progressing for future generations. I am worrying there will be no NHS , social care or pensions for my DD. How sad living standards are sliding backwards and not forwards.

OP posts:
pinkySilver · 15/03/2023 18:39

I don’t know a single pensioner who is worse off than us with two full time working adults in the household

There are millions of them - struggling on a small state pension with all sorts of health issues and no back-up. You're lucky that all your friends are rich.

And women had no choice about going out to work before. A few would have chosen it but many would have loved the chance to be a pilot or a lawyer or a bank manager. The fight was to be allowed to get a career. Most didn't choose that. And it left them completely dependent on a man. They couldn't leave. No pension, no money , no home.
There were just as many poor people then and they haven't suddenly got rich. But they took in laundry, or did cleaning if they did anything. And they didn't inherit anything.

The pressures were different. Some things were better, some worse - as you'd expect.

But as I said there's no point in pitting one generation against another - each had its challenges and I don't think many of us would want to go back. We'd be far better working together.

bibbybox · 15/03/2023 18:46

there is intergenerational inequality though, I'm not sure why people pretend it's not a thing & no it doesn't mean there aren't poor pensioners

freyamay74 · 15/03/2023 18:51

@bibbybox I don't think people are pretending anything. We're just recognising that every generation has its upsides and downsides.

My own adult dd will no doubt have to work more years than me. On the other hand, she's 6 months into her maternity leave which is 3 months longer than I had for her! And she's got the prospect of 3 more months on statutory maternity pay, plus another 3 months after that if she chooses. Her partner had 2 weeks paid paternity leave. 2 weeks more than my dh had when we had her.

It's really not that simple to just say one generation has it better than others. I think some people are just cherry picking the good bits and ignoring the downsides.

bibbybox · 15/03/2023 18:53

I worry about my dc & think they have it much harder.

It's really not that simple to just say one generation has it better than others.

but the boomers have had it good statistically...

Spendonsend · 15/03/2023 18:54

You do have to expect 65-7 year olds to be the wealthiest. They have spent their whole working life to build up to that point (plus any inheritance is likely to have happened)

Obviously final salary pension schemes were a very unique thing we wont see again. And there has been a lot of house price growth so I am sure people my age wont build uo quite the same level. I think the wage stagnation of thd last 15 years has had a huge impact. But i really do expect to have more than a 30 year old when I am 68.

DuvetDownn · 15/03/2023 18:56

If all the older generation are so wealthy then it looks like a lot of the younger generation will inherit.

freyamay74 · 15/03/2023 18:56

Oh and when my dd returns to work, she'll get 30 hours free childcare when her child turns 3, or maybe even when she turns 2 after todays announcement.

When I think back to the struggle of paying full childcare fees from when she was 12 weeks old until she started school at almost 5 years old (September birthday!) ... it was grim. And mortgage rates were about 12 % during her pre school years too.

This shouldn't be a battle about 'who has it better'. There are things each generation benefits from even if they can't see it at the time.

Original poster
Fifi0000 · 15/03/2023 18:57

freyamay74 · 15/03/2023 18:51

@bibbybox I don't think people are pretending anything. We're just recognising that every generation has its upsides and downsides.

My own adult dd will no doubt have to work more years than me. On the other hand, she's 6 months into her maternity leave which is 3 months longer than I had for her! And she's got the prospect of 3 more months on statutory maternity pay, plus another 3 months after that if she chooses. Her partner had 2 weeks paid paternity leave. 2 weeks more than my dh had when we had her.

It's really not that simple to just say one generation has it better than others. I think some people are just cherry picking the good bits and ignoring the downsides.

Max maternity leave is one year. One year when retirement age has gone up private pension benefits eroded , house prices risen to unaffordable levels . There's a strong chance the young today will have to pay for healthcare on top of taxes. Cradle to grave is probably done. I know it's going to probably be worse for my DD and I have no problem admitting they.

OP posts:
bibbybox · 15/03/2023 18:58

You do have to expect 65-7 year olds to be the wealthiest. They have spent their whole working life to build up to that point (plus any inheritance is likely to have happened)

I'm not sure anyone would disagree with that because as you say it's logic. However todays average 20 something won't have the same opportunity, changes to pension schemes, increased pension age, wage stagnation, rent costs, lack of social housing etc

bibbybox · 15/03/2023 18:59

no 20 yr old today is getting free prescriptions when they are 60

Original poster
Fifi0000 · 15/03/2023 19:00

bibbybox · 15/03/2023 18:59

no 20 yr old today is getting free prescriptions when they are 60

No 20 year old will probably be getting universal healthcare when they are 60.

OP posts:
Clioma · 15/03/2023 19:01

DuvetDownn · 15/03/2023 18:56

If all the older generation are so wealthy then it looks like a lot of the younger generation will inherit.

There is some truth in that. Neither my DH nor I inherited more than 5k from our parents.
My stepchildren will inherit from both their parents and from me and with house sales will likely inherit hundreds of thousands of pounds. Hopefully not any time soon!!