To think that what's best for the children gets left out of the free childcare conversation

[Ilikepinacoladass]

I'm all for parents being able to get back to work if they want to, woman's career's not being put on hold, the economy doing well etc..

But I find it quite worrying that what's best for the children seems to not be mentioned at all in the reporting around the govt introducing more and more free childcare hours, or considered in the policy making to begin with..?

I thought the reason it was 15 free hrs originally, and term time only (as is still the case) was because the original aim was to ensure children have access to early education? So they are not turning up at school aged 5 having had no preschool etc as their parents couldn't afford it?

Not to enable parents to get back to work as soon as possible leaving their children in childcare?

I can't help but think that this is skewed by indigenous population numbers, within which high suicide rates continue to be a worrying problem.

@Irecan I agree OP, I am about to start IVF soon and it saddens me to think that after all of our hard work in trying to get pregnant, I’ll be expected to send my baby to nursery at 9 months

You’re just talking absolute nonsense though. Unless it’s your partner, certainly no one else ‘expects you’ much less cares about your choice.
Don’t act like you’re hard done by for wanting to be a sahp.
If you want or stay home then fine, don’t limit the choices of other women.

I was one of those DC in the 60s, either in a playpen when younger while DM did housework or slung out all day with sandwiches in school holidays from about 8. My DM was a SAHP but didn't want me under her feet.

I agree OP. I'm actually from a Scandinavian country, and one of the reasons I chose to raise my children in the UK was that SAHP are a completely foreign concept there. They practically don't exist - apart from anything else families need both parents to earn, due to the way the tax system is built up. And if someone is a SAHP despite this, it's a very lonely existence. No playgroups for children over about a year old (when everyone else goes back to work), coffee mornings etc.

Even when families have more babies and go on parental leave again, the older siblings are left in nursery since it's free - and it's considered best for them to stay in a routine, raised by the State to become good little Scandinavian citizens who do everything exactly like everyone else.

SAHPs are looked down on. When mine were little and I was a SAHM here in the UK, it was clear that friends and family in my original country had zero understanding for why I chose to do it, especially as I have a high level university education.

So whilst I'm all for choice and do welcome this new initiative, like OP I'd also like to see more of a debate about what's best for the children (and I'm absolutely not saying that that's necessarily having a SAHP). Let's make sure that we don't remove the choice in the other direction, as a society.

@Ilikepinacoladass

'wouldn't assume that there isn't a link between children in childcare from very early ages and problems later in life'

Why?

There's zero evidence to suggest there is

There are some strange opinions amongst women.

Do none of you think that childcare falls to women in general because they are better at it? Surely women are instinctively programmed to care for babies since they carried them, gave birth to them, are the only ones that can naturally feed them. It's only in recent times since the advent of formula feeding that a baby would not have thrived with a man in sole charge of it. Why are we pretending men are equal to us when they are far inferior in respect of childcare. The multiple threads on MN where women complain about men failing to carry out basic care for their children is a reflection of many men's inability to react with the same instinctive response to young children.

I had a good giggle at this because if you knew me, you would never put sexist and my name together. In fact, my husband is the lower earner in the household, much lower! And we are both quite low earners if you must know so whatever we decide to do will be a massive sacrifice financially in order to maintain a healthy attachment or wellbeing for our child. I will give up holidays, hold off buying a house, rent somewhere cheaper and work flexible/ part time hours if it means I do not have to send my baby to childcare prematurely.

And I never said that children had to be with their mothers, and either did the OP. Really we’re talking about quality of the early years, and that can be done with longer mat leaves for either parent like other countries (Germany for example) and not just watering down the already shit quality of nurseries to allow both parents go back to work.

@57NewPosts Steve Biddulph has written a very interesting book on the impact of excessive time spent in childcare in early years. Can’t remember the title as it’s a while since I read it but worth looking up if you’re interested.

No. I don't believe that men are less competent to care for children. See also operating washing machines, vacuum cleaners or remembering when family birthdays are.

No not at all.
I genuinely do not believe that women are just ‘better’ at childcare.
Men are perfectly capable and interested in looking after their own children.

Both my parents worked and I’ve actually got a lot of admiration for my mum. They both left school with no qualifications but my mum went to uni and worked whilst I was in primary, my grandparents helped a lot (they wanted to and could). She’s elevated herself and the family.

If anything it gave me a work ethic.

@Ilikepinacoladass

OK, no, there is no link. You can look at pieces of research that defend both views.

But my own view looking at generations of children being raised in a my home country with free childcare, with very well equiped schools and highly qualified teachers and nursery staff, the kids are happy, fulfilled, still love their parents.
And actually girls feel empowered. Girls work very hard those years at school to be truly independent and not having "the best role in the world" that is unpaid and makes them reallu vulnerable to any eventuality.
Let alone being able to pay for the higher cost of living.

Please look at other models of society. Let's not go back to the 1950s.

Do you really think the difference to the child is enough to justify one parent - almost always the mother - being unable to work for 2-3 years per child, losing her financial independence during that time, missing out on years of career progression and taking a permanent hit to her retirement income?

Yes, although I will caveat that with the ideal being shared parenting.
I will always be able to provide a better education and socialisation opportunities for my children than any childcare setting. However, many parents can't. I'd like to see much more emphasis on supporting these families regardless of whether they are in work or not.

@FancyFanny

I wouldn't have had kids with someone if I thought they were an inferior parent or incapable of looking after them.

@Irecan

Do you really think only children of sahms have a healthy attachment?

Do what you think is right for your family OP and leave the rest of us to do what is right for ours.

What the rest of us do doesn't affect you.

From personal experience I wanted a career and we both earned enough to have a full time nanny/nursery. I know in my heart that wasn’t best for my children. Always had rule that one of us was there for bedtime but my children wanted and needed me much more for those early years.

Can you link to where anything or anyone has said that you'll be expected to put your child in nursery? I'm sure you wouldn't have made this up so must have got it from somewhere.

You do realise that so many parents do not have the choice regarding nursery and need to work? Your finances may change for the worse meaning you're unable to be a SAHP. Worth a thought.

No - it is also because that is the way we have been brought up and socialised, and because men only get 2 weeks paternity leave while women get a year. If me and husband got a new dog, and he got a year off and many “dad and dog” clubs while I only got 2 weeks and maybe a couple of hours per evening with the dog, of course he would be better at looking after the dog.

Also, even if your theory were true at an overall level, there are many couples where the man is more caring and nurturing than the woman (me and DH - I don’t want to look after absolutely anything, maybe a houseplant). They should be allowed equal opportunities and not be disadvantages by lawmakers.

Having a home, food, entertainment and opportunities are great for children and many families require 2 incomes for this.

@Penniefarthing

Was Steve Biddulph a sahp?

why Do people insist on equating dogs with children. Every bloody time. 😂

@Botw1 you’d have to read his books.

@Penniefarthing

You don't know?

Steve Biddulph is a wanker.

No thanks