To think that what's best for the children gets left out of the free childcare conversation

[Ilikepinacoladass]

I'm all for parents being able to get back to work if they want to, woman's career's not being put on hold, the economy doing well etc..

But I find it quite worrying that what's best for the children seems to not be mentioned at all in the reporting around the govt introducing more and more free childcare hours, or considered in the policy making to begin with..?

I thought the reason it was 15 free hrs originally, and term time only (as is still the case) was because the original aim was to ensure children have access to early education? So they are not turning up at school aged 5 having had no preschool etc as their parents couldn't afford it?

Not to enable parents to get back to work as soon as possible leaving their children in childcare?

@Laptopneeded well I'm not sure what sort of people you mix with but I, and my mum friends who returned to work, all gave plenty of thought about childcare. It's not like we shove our kids into nursery and pick them up 5 years later! As responsible parents, you consider all aspects of how you are raising your children, and it's something you constantly discuss and review. Just as when your children go to school, you visit different settings, you keep in regular communication with school, you make adjustments if your child needs them etc

WOHP do actually love and care about and nurture their children just as much as SAHP you know!

"it shouldn't become the default with no thinking"

^^ this is what we're are heading for.

But it’s true! And people like you aren’t affected by it so that’s fine. You can stay at home.

But women who want to be out of the workforce and stay at home with their children are being ignored. A spokeswoman was on TV the night of the budget saying that it was good that women with children would be able to make a contribution to the country. I had thought bringing up children was making a contribution to the country - and one we cannot do without. It is the rubbishing of anything that is not paid work I find objectionable and also that children are commodified, they are something to make money out of by offering childcare. Why is this money only available if all adults in a household are working? Why not have some support for mothers to stay at home, and some support for the idea that raising children is important? And also have work patterns that take into account the different biology of women, that we need the loo more often, have discomforts that will affect our ability to work? The argument that this will decrease women's employment is entirely sexist.

@Laptopneeded

I didn't think long and hard about not going back to work.

Didn't think about it for a second. Neither did their dad

@Grammarnut bringing up happy, well adjusted children who grow into well adjusted adults who make a positive contribution to society - absolutely, that's incredibly valuable. The point is: that can be done (or not done!) by WOHP and SAHP.

@Grammarnut

Absolutely.

In America its awful now.

@Grammarnut

Ofcourde women who don't want to work and wouldnt use childcare are being ignored in a policy about childcare

Out of interest, who do you think is raising the children of people who work?

@Laptopneeded this sounds extraordinary! Everyone I know that put their kids into nursery (at a young age or otherwise) spent loads of time researching , visiting, doing lots of settling in days etc. How strange that people wouldn’t do this. It doesn’t sound like great parenting TBH, maybe their kids are better off in nursery if their parents are so irresponsible!

@Laptopneeded

How much thought did your oh put it into going back to work or choosing a nursery?

@Botw1

We both agreed come hell or high water one of us would look after then whilst non verbal no matter the cost.

Re. Who is looking after the children : a real mix of people.
When was the last time you were in a nursery?

@AlBG

Oh definitely settling in days etc but some definitely didn't bother with nursery ratings!
One is not good near me but several said it was the most convenient due to transport (near trains).

No one seemed to think, whose arms is my baby going to be in?
How will that teenager get around x amount of babies etc.

I think it can be tough for women who have such rigid ideology about early years childcare and how it can only be done by mummy and daddy, to see kids of working parents turn out just fine ;-) Why not just be happy with the your setup and be glad it worked for you?!

All I'm saying is I don't want to go the American way and it just becomes the default without really careful consideration that's all.

There is now a real tone of superiority of working mums on this thread. Honestly, I was trying to be polite as I have been on all sides of the fence, a working mum, a stay at home mum, AND for a time, working in nurseries and childcare myself. Have you considered that plenty of stay at home mums would like to work, but consider it in the best interests of their family to stay at home for a few years? This narrative of stay at home mums clearly have no interest in contributing to the economy, they want to stay at home and ‘do nothing’ is just ridiculous. Before I get flamed for not also defending working mums, as I’ve said repeatedly, no parent should face judgement for their choices, but it really feels like the WM are now desperate to explain to the SAHMs that they are effectively contributing nothing to the economy or society and there is no need for any parent to stay at home. @Botw1 however I’m very glad to see you’ve acknowledged that staying at home isn’t the wrong choice, just different. I wish others could also see this. Equally, all the SAHMs telling the WMs they are damaging their kids by sending them to nursery, stop, because it’s not helpful or true in many cases.

And for the final time, we need PAY NURSERY WORKERS better and value early years far, far more highly than it is.

@Laptopneeded you sound far too invested in your friends' childcare arrangements ... perhaps let them make their choices and you do you!

@early30smum I couldn't disagree more!
I actually said a few posts back that what matters is raising happy well adjusted children who become positive members of society. That should be valued. Not whether it's done by one or both parents working.

The bottom line is, there are far more significant factors about being a good parent than whether one works or not. There are brilliant parents who WOH and who SAH. And likewise there are sadly some useless parents who don't meet their children's needs, who don't instil good values.

My issue is that it is typically applied only to women. Men absolutely aren't expected to think 'long and hard' about wanting to continue their careers full time.

I didn't think long and hard about it, me staying at home was never a consideration. I don't see why I should consider it any more than the average man.

OP I completely agree.
This country has lost its way with how we care for our children .
At the end of the day nursery is institutional care. OK for limited periods. But 7.30am- 5.pm daily???
I couldn't do it to my child. Sorry.

@freyamay74 apologies I think I missed that post. So are you saying that if parents, let’s say mums, want to stay at home and look after their babies/young children, and those children become positive members of society, then you agree that it’s a valid choice to stay at home?

Also agree with you on sadly some parents being utterly useless whether they work or stay at home.

@Laptopneeded

I didn't ask who was working in nurseries?

People who work, presumably, at childcare. My point was that much emphasis is given to getting mothers of ever younger children out to work when this may not be in the interests of the children (OP's point) and perhaps not in the interest of all mothers, either. There is no support for mothers who stay at home, the government's entire strategy is to get children into childcare (private provision for profit, employing women on minimum wage or not much above) and women who have small children into the workforce. No-one values childcare by the mother - which I think is bloody appalling.

I still don't know how people are hearing 30 hours term time and turning that into 50 hours a week 52 weeks a year

At the end of the day nursery is institutional care. OK for limited periods. But 7.30am- 5.pm daily???

Sure it's been said before, but "institutional care" can actually be incredibly beneficial. As demonstrated in countries that already adopt this approach.

Language acquisition, social skills, learning, group dynamics etc etc ad infinimum.

Perhaps you might consider that work should be more geared to women with children, that the male model of the working day and working life is not fit for purpose for men, let alone women, who have quite different biology and different needs throughout their lives. The economy is for the people, not the other way round.