To think teacher is trying to put DC off

[Boogiewoogieanddance]

Not sure if we ABU as parents that don't want to see DD isn't excelling but this just doesn't sit right with me.

Kids are preparing for the transfer test. We aren't pushy but ours showed an interest in doing it. At parent teacher meeting teacher advised DD doesn't do it as she thinks it would be bad for her confidence as she is toward bottom of the class and to take the choice off her. We had this conversation with her and she got upset and really wanted to give it a go. That's fine, we'll support her and help where we can, if she wants to stop prepping at any time she can.

My issue is with the practice papers and how the teacher writes the score. She puts the child percentage and then beside it the class average and where the child placed in class. Eg 45% CA75% 27TH/27.

Surely this could be information sent to the parents to review rather than writing on the child's paper for them to take home? I just think if her main concern is DDs confidence plaster over the paper she is bottom of the class isn't great. She is our eldest though so not sure if this is the norm.

Putting a child's class ranking on the paper is totally unnecessary and reminiscent of Malory Towers.

Unless you are an experienced qualified teacher you are way out of line asking the teacher to explain why she marks the scores on the paper. Not least of all because it’s perfectly obvious why she does - to tell the child their score, to show what the average was and to show where the child’s grade sits in the testing cohort. If she didn’t do this you’d be asking her to send this information to you but bypass your daughter.
You are meant to be guiding your child. I have seen many anxious and worried children in the run up to the exams and absolutely heart broken ones when the results come out and they didn’t get the grades their friends got and won’t be going to the same school. Far better you tell her now you know we think it’s best you go to this school and you don’t need the test for it so let’s pick a new hobby for you than put a child through that who was little to no chance of obtaining a good grade. The teacher isn’t always right of course but you and your husband seem breathtakingly arrogant in that not only have you refused her professional opinion of your daughter’s prospects as an educator, but now you also want her either to explain to your satisfaction why she does things the way she does and if the explanation doesn’t pass muster for you to change what she does.

Writing the children's rank on the paper seems unkind to me and doesn't add much useful information.
The children know who the most academic pupils in the class are and if there's some where the teacher is concerned about the child's ability and confidence they should speak to the parent directly.

But I would also consider whether if you're concerned about your daughter knowing she's bottom is going to knock her confidence whether she's also likely to find the whole process stressful.

@icanneverthinkofnc honestly I think she is much more capable that what she has shown in school and her shyness holds her back as she wouldnt ask for help easily or give answers incases shes wrong. At home she will so if we put extra effort in I don't think it's beyond the realms if possibility that she gets a decent grade which will in turn boosts her confidence within school.

The ranking in class is irrelevant really if the transfer paper is for transferring elsewhere.

(I have no idea what it is!)

You could have a class or cohort of pupils who are all above average and being ranked 27/27 could still make you ranked higher than average.

I've also not known UK schools to ever rank children in class. Rather against expected levels.

@Eyerollcentral but I believe we are guiding her? We haven't refused the professional opinion, we have listened and conversed with DD. Looked up schools with her that you don't need the transfer test for and been really excited about them. Despite this she has voiced she wants to atleast prepare. Surely that's guiding her? She knows at any time she decide she doesn't want to do it she can pull out and there is literally no shame in it. Our other option is to force the current opinion of the teacher on her which as you have rightly said is not always correct.

I would look at ways of boosting confidence. What does she like out of school? Is she interested in something in particular that she can shine in.

Thing is you sound much more invested in her succeeding in the test. You did say in the thread well actually I think she could do better than she does at class because she is shy. You’ve just said well the teacher might not be right. Experienced teachers can assess ability even with shy or quiet children. They are used to doing so. I don’t think you are guiding her, I think you are glad she has said she wants to do it because YOU want her to pass it.

School open days/nights are also really good, you could go to them in P6 a few years ago, can you still? Good to view a mix of grammars and secondaries, both for encouragement and also reassurance that there are some amazing schools here that you don’t need the transfer test for.

@icanneverthinkofnc yes, she does some activities outside of school which we encourage.

@Lovewineandchocs unfortunately we missed them this year due to circumstances but we have been having a look at their websites, especially highschools rather than grammars.

@Eyerollcentral this is the problem with typing conversations isn't it, its easy to pick things up the wrong way and make an assumption of people's goals that aren't necessarily correct. Maybe a phonecall would be a better way to have a discussion with the teacher so nothing is taken the wrong way. I appreciate your input.

Her place in the class shouldn't be recorded for all to see. Class average is useful though as it gives her something to aim for. That said you have to be realistic and think she may be able to work her way up to class average but if there are 100 places at the hoped for school, and 200 children hit the required percentage then only the top 100 will go through so she needs to be aiming higher,

Posted too quickly, if you find her particular talent, it will boost her confidence and may lead to a link with school.
My friends daughters were musical, music increased mathematics scores in turn a DD turned more to science.

The teacher will already have marked you out as one of those parents who pushes their ambitions on to their child. They’ve seen it all before.

I cannot see the point in being ranked in class. Surely it’s detrimental for some children.
In my area here in the UK approximately the top 3rd get into Grammar, so it would have been useful to know what that top 3rd score was. Here all kids in the county are automatically entered and have to be withdrawn if they don’t want to sit it. I agree with PP that not prepping could leave your DD behind, assuming NI also includes Math & English elements. 11+ Tutoring is big business here, it was the worst year of our lives tutoring my DS. Good luck!

It’s 25% in NI @TwoPointFourCatsAndDogs .
Further complicated by an AQE score of 95-99 might get you into a grammar in some areas but in others you’d need 110 plus.

I'm sorry I accidently voted that you are being unreasonable.

I taught P6/P7 for 6 years and so have done ALOT of transfer test prep and dealt with alot of related issues that arose.

I would never ever have placed a ranking on a paper or even shared it with parents unless specifically asked. No child needs to see that! Is this school policy? It's awful.

I used to mark the papers and put on the score, then percentage and leave it at that. I always made it very clear to each child that it was their choice if they wanted to share their scores with others in the class and noone was allowed to ask in case others felt pressure to share a score they weren't happy with.

I was an excellent tutor and teacher when it came to transfer test and the children in my class did very well. (One of the reasons I was stuck in the P6/P7 cycle for 6 years and wasn't moved). But I hated the system and it was a deciding factor in returning home (to Donegal) as I didn't want my children experiencing it. I know this sounds overly dramatic but such was the distress some of the students in my class were in during the process! In saying that I always advised parents if I thought their child wasn't capable or coping well, but ultimately the decision is between the parents and the child and aside from that conversation I wouldn't put a child off.

Anyway I've gone on a rant about the transfer now but I agree the teacher, should not have put the ranking on the test paper.

Also 45% for only the third ever test paper? That is not bad at all. They are still getting used to the papers and test format etc.

I think class rankings is not an unheard of way of comparing academic ability. I remember it at school and it is a helpful way to gauge where you sit within the class.

we were definitely ranked when I did professional qualifications. So I think it is pretty normal.

It has its place for sure, but these children are 9 and 10. I've seen children devastated by getting the lowest score in a spelling test. In this instance at this stage it serves no purpose academically but could cause terrible upset in a 9 year old.

Tbf so can achieving a low mark in a test you don’t have to do

The ranking is the only part that matters though. If she got 99% but everyone else got 100% then she’d fail. If she got 1% but everyone else got 2% then she’d pass. What’s the point in telling you the percentage she got when it’s a comparative pass threshold?

I meant if she got 1% but everyone else got 0%

@WigglyWigglyWiggly the ranking as a whole matters in relation to everyone who is sitting the test. From the small amount of research I have done over the last few days I think the schools class average is extremely high so I don't think just because she is towards the bottom of that small class means she has no hope. There is still 8 months to the actual test so lots of time for improvement aswell.

@jujitsugrant you sound lovely and have voiced how I think it should be approached.

Is this a school in a very naice area or a prep @Boogiewoogieanddance ? If so some parents may want to see where their child sits in relation to others and the teacher may historically have accommodated that. However I think many of us agree we would not put it on a paper sent home.
Agree with @jujitsugrant it is very early days but am interested @jujitsugrant the standardised scores below which you would have advised parents against transfer or what you used to make that judgement.
I think I would have asked the teacher at the parent teacher meeting how she had reached her judgment that the child should not sit transfer.

@Boogiewoogieanddance I agree that seems rather unnecessary.

Like a few other posters, I'm not clear on what a 'transfer test' is, but throughout my school life, the only time children were told by the teacher where they ranked was if they had come first / got 100%.

Unless the results for each child are going to be standardised according to the scores of all of the children in the class, then the placement is not of any relevance (the child could be in a class of unusually high scorers or unusually low scorers, which would skew the data).

There are some truly wonderful teachers out there, but unfortunately you do sometimes get bully types.