To think teacher is trying to put DC off

[Boogiewoogieanddance]

Not sure if we ABU as parents that don't want to see DD isn't excelling but this just doesn't sit right with me.

Kids are preparing for the transfer test. We aren't pushy but ours showed an interest in doing it. At parent teacher meeting teacher advised DD doesn't do it as she thinks it would be bad for her confidence as she is toward bottom of the class and to take the choice off her. We had this conversation with her and she got upset and really wanted to give it a go. That's fine, we'll support her and help where we can, if she wants to stop prepping at any time she can.

My issue is with the practice papers and how the teacher writes the score. She puts the child percentage and then beside it the class average and where the child placed in class. Eg 45% CA75% 27TH/27.

Surely this could be information sent to the parents to review rather than writing on the child's paper for them to take home? I just think if her main concern is DDs confidence plaster over the paper she is bottom of the class isn't great. She is our eldest though so not sure if this is the norm.

Especially because of this

’although she is low in her class I think if she went to another school they wouldn't have an issue with her doing it.’

It’s not a kind thing to do but I don’t know what’s normal in state grammar areas or in N Ireland in particular.

@Aurorabored they just get sent off with a classroom assistant to do work sheets. We did discuss with another teacher unrelated to the school and his advice was to put her through the prep as if she doesn't she will fall behind even further.

From your updates OP I'd let her take it and be a pushy parent if you need to. Maybe ask the teacher too if there are specific areas she's struggling with eg fractions. Once she's aware you're going for it, it'll be in everyone's interest to support her learning.
I would however keep dropping things in about the benefits of the school she would attend if she doesn't pass....oh, Sian's daughter got the lead role in the musical The schools really into performing arts.....oh nice to see they have a great anti bullying policy....Duke of Edinburgh Award looks interesting...
Good luck

Then it sounds like you’ve got it sorted.

If it were anything other than for these places in schools where space is limited then yes I'd say so. However for the kids who are close to the top but not quite there, they need to know.

I'm in NI too, our kids are the test subjects for the new testing system SEAG i think. Which is a great thing, seperating testing by religion was only holding us all back from the long awaiting "moving on"

I have heard from teacher friends that they are struggling to get their Heads around this new type of test, moreso if it's a AQE school than a GL school.

The type of learning appears to be formulatic and it is still very early days. Some teachers are just also odd, you know your daughter best. And I know too here it can be an area thing where you really don't want them to go to the local secondary (we are in this situation)

It's £20 payable in May to book her a place, if she then doesn't go on to do it, it's not much lost.
I would work with her at home, there are resources like the transfer tutor dot com and do a test every weekend and keep up over the Easter holidays. Don't hothouse her but really to get the scores she needs we have been told by school it's repeating skills and a lot of outside reading that will help the most.

I have never seen it done like that but they do put the score on the practice papers to send home.
If you add together her PIE and PIM scores , decide by 2 and take 7 off it will give you an idea of what she MIGHT achieve in transfer. Obviously what you need for admission to a Grammar school will vary depending on which part of Northern Ireland you are in. That might help you understand how far she is off ‘passing’.

Children generally have a fair idea theselves where they sit in relation to the rest of the lass in the tests. There will be a lot of chat.

I see no need for a child to be formally
told their ranking. Especially at such a young age. My kids never had this at school. Yes they might know if they were in the top few or above/below average but never a ranking out of the whole class. How demoralising. And unnecessary. It sounds very old-fashioned.

Class not lass

Thanks for the replies, teacher is aware we are allowing her to give it a go but just seems unsupportive and genuinely wondering if she has put it on the test to try and put us off, will send an email see if she has a reason for putting the extra effort into writing each childs place on their paper. Maybe she thinks we are horrible pushy parents are forcing her... who knows. I just don't see the benefit at all and have never seen it done before especially on children so young.

Hi OP, assuming you’re in NI? Your child must be in P6? My DS went to quite a high achieving primary school also and his teacher did this re class averages until a parent drew it to the attention of the principal and then it stopped! Just wanted to say, my DS’ scores on practice papers in P6 and the start of P7 were so up and down, and we debated not putting him in for the test, but he really wanted to do it and had come so far. Around Oct of P7 his scores became much higher and he ended up getting an A! Totally unexpected but through hard work and keeping on with the practice papers I think something eventually clicks and they get the hang of the test format etc. There’s a good FB group for support with this and pm me if you want. Good luck to your DD and I’d say just support her and keep her confidence up.

Thanks for the encouragement @Lovewineandchocs

FWIW, I think you are absolutely right to support her she wants to go for this.

If it was my child, I would be drumming into her that what is important is that she can look in the mirror after it's all done and say that she tried her best. For me, the end result is irrelevant, as long as she worked to the best of ability at that time. And if she did, then she should jolly-well be proud of herself.

I didn't realise that NI still had the grammar school system.

I think you should support her and let her do it while preparing her she might not get through and bigging up her other options. You won't do much for her self confidence if she's just told she's too stupid. Agree class place not necessary or kind and one class at one school might be very high or low achieving and not necessarily a reflection of the cut off point.

At some point in life, she will come across situations where she's ranked, and in a few years there are exams. I'd focus on making sure she's resilient; trying matters and parents don't care where you rank if you tried, we think you'd enjoy X school better by but will support you trying for Y school if you want etc. She will learn exam techniques and other skills just by trying for the test, and that will all help her in secondary regardless of where she goes, so if you see it all as practice then she'll be fine.

Don’t do this. If your child can’t hack that she is in the lower end of the class then don’t put her through this process, she won’t cope and then she’ll feel worse.

@Eyerollcentral She hasn't mentioned it at all and doesn't seem bothered. It was a conversation myself and DH have had, it's not a case she can't hack it. I am just curious as to why its done and would be interested to here her reasoning behind it. What do we say then, you've no chance so quit now? We have explained she's under no pressure, there are other options and she is adamant.

If she chats with her friends and they talk about scores that's fine but it's not written discreetly so I imagine it's easy for other kids to see when test papers are being handed out which I also don't like.

I've had 3 kids go through the transfer test in NI, my last one is in year 8 now (first year post primary) and I work in a primary school. The class average, position in a class has never been written down, commented on etc and is not being done this year either. I know in my school the scores are low at the minute because the kids have only started practicing the papers.

My elder two flew through the transfer test, my last one didn't although her AQE score was high, her GL wasn't, she has ended up at a different school to her siblings.

I feel for your daughter. I also disagree with the teacher writing the mark for all the children to see.
But surely if your daughter is struggling it is wrong to set her up to fail? Even if she passed the tests she would likely struggle with the work at the new school over time.

@Daisybuttercup12345 we have spent so much time thinking about this but are happy with our decision to allow her to prepare along with the class and work along side her at home. She doesn't have to sit it and if she has terrible scores closer to the time we will have another conversation and atleast she knows she's tried.

What’s your job OP? Would you care for clients coming in telling you that they want you to do it differently because you don’t like how they are doing it? The fact you are concerned about this indicates you know it will upset your daughter. When I did the transfer test the teacher wrote the scores of each practice on the board with your name from best to worst. A boy who sat beside me was pushed in to doing the transfer by his parents. They were poor but paid for tutoring as well, which was v rare at the time. He did pass w a lot of work. However he was bottom of the class in grammar school and absolutely hated it, left at 16 and trained in a trade. What’s your end game here?

What are your observations about her abilities, OP?
Uk 11-plus example, but a friend was advised not to enter her DD. She ignored her, and her DD had the highest score. Ended up with a scholarship to an independent, then top university, now a professor. If her parents had listened to the teacher, who knows...

@Eyerollcentral if they where curious as to why I did something a certain way and wanted to know why as they didn't think it was necessary/agree with it then I would have no problem with that. I would either explain and they would take on board my reasons or explain why they didn't agree with and I would take what they said on board and reveiw why I practice the way I do. I dont think it's unreasonable to have conversations with the person who is educating your child.

I just don't see the benefit at all for it to be written that way for any of the children.

Theres a difference between that boy and her though as she is not being pushed into it at all, we tried to encourage her not to do and she is adamant she wants to. So end game is (I hope) that I have a DD that knew her options, made her decision, was supported in that decision by her parents and has worked to the best of her ability while having conversations and reviewing her progress through out.