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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Parents of university age children never got ANY free childcare

378 replies

Cliff1975 · 15/03/2023 08:05

Whilst it is great that the government has finally realised that free childcare is needed those of us with university age children did not benefit from this and we are now supporting them through uni at great expense. Maybe once these kids who are getting free childcare get to uni that will be free too? Just can't help feeling that we are missing out from all angles?

OP posts:
Endlesssummer2022 · 15/03/2023 14:05

The OPs attitude is one of the reasons why the UK is doing so poorly. There are many people who resent others having stuff they don’t so want to have it taken away. It’s a very negative mindset.

MarshaBradyo · 15/03/2023 14:07

DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm · 15/03/2023 12:56

Seems like a bit of an odd thing for everyone to be celebrating. Now taxpayers are subsidising it so we can work even more hours to make the wealth gap even wider.

Would have been nice if they could have put that money towards something so we could all work less rather than more, but I guess that would be too much to hope for.

Some women who do want to work and have found childcare cost a barrier.

If you’d like to work less that’s still a choice.

Endlesssummer2022 · 15/03/2023 14:08

OP in the 19th century upon hearing of new vaccines: ‘there wasn’t a polio vaccine when I was young so nobody else should have one either!’

DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm · 15/03/2023 14:28

MarshaBradyo · 15/03/2023 14:07

Some women who do want to work and have found childcare cost a barrier.

If you’d like to work less that’s still a choice.

Not for most people it isn't.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 15/03/2023 14:34

Not for most people it isn't.

But this specific help (for women who do want to work) doesn't change that fact.

If you want to campaign to make staying home a viable option for more women, I'm sure there are plenty who would support that. There have been lots of campaigns for part-time working to be an option, which has really benefitted women who wanted a bit of both.

KnittedCardi · 15/03/2023 14:46

I haven't read the whole thread, sorry - but I definitely got some reduction in my nursery bills for 20 year old currently at university.

DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm · 15/03/2023 14:54

I'd be happy if it was only aimed at women who wanted to work, but these days it's becoming less and less of a choice and more and more of a necessity. Is this what we really want? Is this good for society?

The tories aren't doing this out of any love for young mothers or care what is best for young children - they simply want more people in work generating tax and, more importantly, make sure companies keep making bigger and bigger profits,

MomFromSE · 15/03/2023 15:13

@DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm you are conflating two issues. There are people badly struggling with child care costs and women who would like to work but can't afford to due to child care costs. This policy benefits these individuals with the broader societal benefit of increased economic activity which is required to fund things like public services! The government very rightly cares about this, as they should.

This doesn't make it any harder to be a stay at home mother if that's what a woman wants. If you want policies that make being a stay at home mother easier, campaign for that but the two issues aren't directly related.

Albiboba · 15/03/2023 15:14

DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm · 15/03/2023 14:54

I'd be happy if it was only aimed at women who wanted to work, but these days it's becoming less and less of a choice and more and more of a necessity. Is this what we really want? Is this good for society?

The tories aren't doing this out of any love for young mothers or care what is best for young children - they simply want more people in work generating tax and, more importantly, make sure companies keep making bigger and bigger profits,

In what way is that relevant to the cost of childcare becoming less of a burden?
In what way is more affordable childcare not a good think for society?

I’m not sure what point you are actually making in terms of the post at hand, which is about extending the 30 hours to younger children.

IAmTheWalrus85 · 15/03/2023 15:15

I absolutely get what you mean OP. In my rational mind, I know progress is progress and I’ve benefitted from heaps of developments that people didn’t have in the past. And I’m happy about improvements for future generations. But at the same time I can’t help feeling a bit bitter that my youngest child will miss out on any additional help under the new regime by a couple of months - my total bill for childcare for the two of them has been eye-watering and it’s not as though the last few years have been easy in terms of the cost of living.

DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm · 15/03/2023 15:35

Albiboba · 15/03/2023 15:14

In what way is that relevant to the cost of childcare becoming less of a burden?
In what way is more affordable childcare not a good think for society?

I’m not sure what point you are actually making in terms of the post at hand, which is about extending the 30 hours to younger children.

How is it not related? Are we not suddenly allowed to discuss the political motivations behind the budget on Mumsnet, or even vaguely suggest that putting young children in cheap childcare from before the age of 1 is not an indisuputably good thing for either children or society as a whole?

DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm · 15/03/2023 15:45

MomFromSE · 15/03/2023 15:13

@DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm you are conflating two issues. There are people badly struggling with child care costs and women who would like to work but can't afford to due to child care costs. This policy benefits these individuals with the broader societal benefit of increased economic activity which is required to fund things like public services! The government very rightly cares about this, as they should.

This doesn't make it any harder to be a stay at home mother if that's what a woman wants. If you want policies that make being a stay at home mother easier, campaign for that but the two issues aren't directly related.

Of course they are related. You can't say that we should look at a policy and only consider the economic aspects and not anything else (or rather you can, but you'd be wrong).

Also, where did I say this policy makes it harder to be a stay at home mother? That's just the direction that the system and those in charge of it are pushing us in general and this policy simply makes it easier get people doing more and more work, which people seem very quick to blindly accept is an unequivocally good thing.

MomFromSE · 15/03/2023 15:57

@DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm

Sorry, I can't really follow your logic. This policy makes it more affordable for mothers to work if they want to. If you don't want to, it's not forcing anyone back to work.

Why is it a bad thing to help women who want to work, get back into work?

MrsMurphyIWish · 15/03/2023 16:09

Before my DD was born, there used to be universal healthy food vouchers for all pregnant mothers and each child had a trust fund set up with small starting amount. I could be bitter about that. I didn’t receive the 30 hours either 🤷‍♀️ The envy in this country is awful. OP, I’m sure you benefited in other ways which you’re not aware of.

DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm · 15/03/2023 16:19

MomFromSE · 15/03/2023 15:57

@DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm

Sorry, I can't really follow your logic. This policy makes it more affordable for mothers to work if they want to. If you don't want to, it's not forcing anyone back to work.

Why is it a bad thing to help women who want to work, get back into work?

Sigh. It's not, when viewed in isolation, and I never said it was. It seems like you just aren't either willing to think about the wider implications of all of us working more hours or the reasons as to why those in charge might want us to spend more time in the office and less time at home. It doesn't have to be this way but I guess we get the society we deserve.

emmetgirl · 15/03/2023 16:23

I'm 56 and didn't get any free childcare when I had DCs. I still think it's needed and a good idea but it does sting a bit.

ladykale · 15/03/2023 16:32

Cliff1975 · 15/03/2023 08:05

Whilst it is great that the government has finally realised that free childcare is needed those of us with university age children did not benefit from this and we are now supporting them through uni at great expense. Maybe once these kids who are getting free childcare get to uni that will be free too? Just can't help feeling that we are missing out from all angles?

Didn't you get more child benefit though?

MomFromSE · 15/03/2023 16:52

@DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm

I was being genuine. I fully understand the wider context and have explained it-- our ability to fund public services is linked to how economically active the country is.

I get you don't like this is a policy priority but we can't simultaneously decry the state of public services and the state of the economy and also expect policies that don't try to address these issues.

afterdropshock · 15/03/2023 17:00

When the 30 free hours came in, the price of childcare per hour rose dramatically.

Albiboba · 15/03/2023 17:03

afterdropshock · 15/03/2023 17:00

When the 30 free hours came in, the price of childcare per hour rose dramatically.

do you want to back that up?

DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm · 15/03/2023 17:08

MomFromSE · 15/03/2023 16:52

@DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm

I was being genuine. I fully understand the wider context and have explained it-- our ability to fund public services is linked to how economically active the country is.

I get you don't like this is a policy priority but we can't simultaneously decry the state of public services and the state of the economy and also expect policies that don't try to address these issues.

Surely that's up to the individual concerned and depends on whether you think they are addressing the right issues?

Also, your understanding of the wider context is definitely different to mine. Yours is framed by the fact that you seem to accept the system as unchangeable and also seem happy to accept that we just need to work harder and generate more tax to sustain it, despite the fact that it is making our lives gradually worse now.

Mine is that this is putting lipstick on a pig. Sure, it makes things a little better at first glance, but only as long as you are willing to ignore the fact that underneath it, it is still a pig.

Our direction of travel is all wrong. We should not be celebrating the fact that it is now easier for us to work even more hours away from our family for ever diminishing returns.

MomFromSE · 15/03/2023 17:27

@DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm

I get where you are coming from. Despite the headlines, economic standards of living have increased a lot over the generations and a two income family has more material wealth than a single wage earning family did a couple of generations ago. It doesn't feel that way because our expectations of what are material needs are has also changes and we are a much more consumerist now.

However, we are at an inflection point in society; if we want to maintain public services with an increasingly ageing society, more of us will have to work. It's just a fact.

I don't think families are necessarily happier now than in the past as but I don't think many want to go backwards regarding access to material comforts.

Also, generations ago, being a stay at home mother was a necessity and the average mother wasn't at home playing with their preschool aged children all day. Unless well-off, they were doing hard domestic labor as there weren't things like washing machines available! Also, not having access to paid work left women vulnerable and dependent on men and without choices and agency over their lives.

So while there are lots of issues with the state of the country, I think this policy will help a lot of families and help the economy.

cadburyegg · 15/03/2023 17:31

Well there were lots of things that were available in the past aren’t available now.

The child trust fund was available for children born between 2001 and 2011.

The house price to earnings ratio was also much lower then than it is now.

I still benefit from the childcare voucher scheme, which closed to new entrants in 2018.

My children are 8 and 5 so won’t benefit from the free childcare for toddlers. I’m still glad some of my friends with younger dc are getting it though. Anything that reduces financial stress on families with young dc is a win in my book.

Swings and roundabouts 🤷‍♀️

DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm · 15/03/2023 17:42

Living standards in the west definitely have improved up until relatively recently (at the expense of a lot of people in what we used to call 'the developing world' - I think 'global south' is now the accepted term).

That stopped about 15 -20 years ago though and now things are on the slide, with Gen X the first generation to have a worse standard of life than the boomers before them and it then getting worse for millenials and even worse for Gen Z. Even life expectancy is now dropping. They are repealing child labour laws in the US (Arkansas and others) and it's only a matter of time before that kind of thing makes it's way over the atlantic.

I also definitely agree that we should not confuse living standards with quality of life, which never rose as high and has been dropping for longer.

You say that people don't want to do without material comforts and I think that's true, but it's also something we've been carefully conditioned to believe as well. All that money spent on marketing isn't being wasted. It doesn't make us happier though (often the opposite) and our energies could be spent much more productively and much more fairly, so that we don't have to work ourselves to the bone in order to try and slow down our slide down the hill a little bit. The problem is that the system we live under, and those who benefit most from it, don't want us to believe that things can change, that there may be an alternative, that we can live with less and be happy. They want us to work more, because for every x pounds we earn or that goes on public services, they get xxxx pounds and in the end capitalism is a zero-sum, last person standing kind of game.

We don't have much time left to stop it before the momentum is unstoppable.

CeciliaMars · 15/03/2023 18:17

You are also (as am I) of the generation that managed to get on the housing ladder because prices hadn't yet got so crazy. Your children also would have benefited from Labour's Child Trust Fund - this no longer exists. Your generation could claim benefits for more than two children, had better access to social housing, etc etc. People of our age often didn't have to pay for university themselves, or had lower fees.
I feel so sorry for people in their 20s and 30s now. Nowadays, the housing market is crazy and it's almost impossible to live off one wage. Unless they are helped, almost no-one will be able to afford to have kids! Seeing as your kids are teenagers, can't you just be happy that they might have a better life as a result of this change? Every generation has its own challenges - let's just be pleased when someone's life is going to get easier instead of harder.