To think that not everyone has the tools to make great life choices?

[malificent7]

I hear a lot of talk on mn about life choices. Especially in the context of benefit recipients or single parents.

I used to make very poor life choices. I suffered abuse from mum and in my teens/ early 20s, from my ex.
I therefore made bad decisions and suffered from horrendous mental health.

This resulted on me rebelling against my mum, not doing medicine asshe wanted me to ( regret this now,), turning to booze and choosing a bad dad for dd.

Since emdr therapy, I have been making much better choices but my upbringinghas definately has held me bk.

Aibu to think that if a person from a relatively affluent middle class family can make poor life decisions, so can anyone if their mh is poor. Not everyone can choose a decent partner, not to be an addict or a decent career.

I do feel like i threw a lot of my opportunities away as a young woman.

YANBU at all, but I think a lot of people with a comfortable middle-class upbringing do not understand this, or realise that their privilege extends far beyond simple financial security. It took me a while to get it. For example I remember not understanding why women in abusive relationships didn't all just leave. Simple eh?! MN has been an education tbh.

It's not middle class, it's to do with your family. Lottery of life. Both myself and DH are from a working class background but we were both raised on caring loving families. Most our friends were also (even if we were council estate). I think if you come from a good home background it makes a massive difference.

Whilst I agree that 'making bad choices' can be a result of upbringing and trauma I also believe that there comes a point in life where you have to take responsibility for your own choices. You might need help, therapy, medication etc but once you are away from the crap influencers on your life any help you get should be firmly directed at accepting that your decisions are now yours and only you can move forward.

Until that happens, moving on from those people and influences will be very hard indeed.

There’s a book called Scarcity and it talks about how living with too little imposes huge psychic costs, reducing our mental bandwidth and distorting our decisionmaking in ways that dig us deeper into a bad situation. It sounds likely to me.

YANBU. I'm glad someone has recognised this.

I'm a single mum, I didn't choose the best dad for my children. and whilst I take full responsibility for this, I can't help but feel that part of the reason why I set my standards so low initially was because my own dad was abusive and lazy.

Family stability and security is as important to children’s long term outcomes as the family income.

I also think the desired "punishment' for a poor choice is often far in excess of the crime. Like generations of poverty because someone had a baby in less than ideal circumstances.

Definitely, I don’t think it’s just about financial security. I think having a loving, supportive family is probably the most important thing with good relationships modelled as the norm.

Yes I do think there is genuine mental illness and some people do have genuine issues but I also think their is only so long you can blame others for your choices

No one is to blame for someone's behaviour but you have to take somw responsibility for choosing marrying/moving in, having children with someone who treats you or children badly then do nothing about it

If you are being treated badly before the first child is born don't have 5 with then, if you are unsure of someone don't move in with them

We all should own our own choices

Yes you are absolutely correct. I was an unwanted child (my mum considered having me adopted). I was resented by my parents and siblings. I grew up deeply insecure and anxious. I married very young to a totally inappropriate man, as I craved security. When that broke up I then lived with an even more inappropriate man. Eventually I sought help and worked hard on myself to stop making poor choices. My life turned around wonderfully. But even now at age 55 I still suffer regular bouts of insecurity and anxiety.

Nah. I was dragged up. Abusive parents, horrific prospects, violence a regular occurance, was told every day I was stupid and would do nothing.

I nailed it, I made some decent choices, alone, with no guidance. So it can be done. I didn't make every perfect choice, but I did ok. And surrounded myself with good people in the absence of family.

so I'm not sure it's a class thing, I think it's a personality thing.

I don't think it's so black and white.

Some people make poor choices and they know these are not good choices at the time, but do so regardless. Only they know the reasons they don't choose a different path.

Sometimes, they have had poor examples in life... but a lot of times it's not the case.

Some poor choices can be rectified... but choosing a crap dad for your kid, when he was a crap boyfriend....is stupidity. Even worse when you have a second child with the same idiot.

I guess we can frame it as some people just aren't capable of seeing the obvious. Mental health and intelligence are a factor in some cases

YANBU at all, OP, but as others say it is a far more complicated issue than being financially secure or having a stable family background.

There are certainly people for whom it is clear that the odds seem stacked against them - dysfunctional home lives, weak or toxic role models, poor levels of education, economic poverty, low levels of intelligence - but as @ZeroFucksGivenToday says, personality is key too.

I have worked in various schools and one training session I particularly remember focused on an individual's resilience - how some children, despite living an overwhelmingly difficult life, can have a natural aptitude to remain positive and overcome troubles. Others can have very few difficulties (comparatively) but absolutely flounder. Resilience is probably as important as anything else in terms of how an individual will cope with life.

I had a very traumatising childhood.

I did need therapy in my mid 20s for some anxiety, but mostly I tried not to let what happened to me bring me down, I remember actively thinking I don't want to make bad decisions so I never took drugs and rarely drank alcohol - I'm just quite a sensible person, risk averse.

My therapist said I was very resilient. I have no blame, no resentment for my upbringing; I don't really get beaten down easily, I just focus on what's ahead, instead of what's behind. Forgive and forget, move on.

So I agree it's down to personality too. But of course your upbringing will affect you. But your choices, once you're an adult, are very much your own.

I only partly agree with you OP because some people with a shitty upbringing make poor life choices whereas others are able to rise above their up upbringing. There comes a point where we have to take responsibility for our actions and seek the help we need to improve our life chances. The belief in our own agency can be a very powerful tool in helping us to overcome difficult upbringings.

I agree with @nokidshere and @Mumsanetta — regardless of poverty, bad role models, MH struggles, etc there is a point beyond which you need too take responsibility for your own choices and actions. I’ve just spent a few days with a friend from an affluent umc family who had a horrifically abusive childhood which has led to ongoing MH issues and an eating disorder which has led to hospitalisation. I had a differently awful, much poorer childhood and was sexually abused aged 9. We’re both middle-aged now, and have good lives in part because we’ve both worked so hard to move beyond our younger years. Ultimately, you can’t keep blaming your family/early experiences.

Lots of people saying personality is a factor. Well, duh. Where do you thi k personality is forged? But it only gets you so far and trauma impacts your bottom line for a very, very long time.

I made one crap choice as a teen. I had poor mental health following a family 'incident'.

That crap choice led to a series of events and further crap choices. At the time, I couldn't have done anything differently. I was very lucky I didn't go down a party that was totally irredeemable. It could very easily have happened. I think it was fluke that it didn't.

I turned out OK, largely because of a decent family, being tenacious, fairly intelligent and a good bullshitter. I've done alright, but I'll never get those years back. My financial situation now is largely a result of not saving for a house in my early twenties because I was too busy having a breakdown and spiralling.

So even when you do sort stuff out / take responsibility / make better choices or whatever, you'll always have a different starting point than if you hadn't gone down the rabbit hole in the first place.

Your are spot on OP. I wish more people had the compassion and insight to realise this. Unfortunately they'd rather give themselves a pat on the back.

You're totally right. A kid who has grown up in poverty and/or a chaotic home with no decent parenting is obviously not going to find it as easy as (for example) the Middleton kids to do well in life.

That talk about making good decisions comes from the USA and it comes from Boomers. They actually COULD make good decisions and do well. Higher education was affordable for them so all they had to do was pick a career and work towards it. If it didn't work out, they could start again. Housing was affordable so all they had to do was get any kind of job (even if they had no higher education or training) and show up to work on time. Then they could afford a house and kids.

I still hear Boomers dumping on renters and those who have no education or are unhappy in their professions. They don't get it.

What I hope you realize is that you haven't thrown your life away. You may have had a slow start. But you can turn it around. It may be hard but keep an eye out for job and training/education opportunities. Show up reliably at whatever job you do have. Be a good parent/friend/whatever.

If you can achieve a stable, happy life despite that early hardship, then you will have really earned respect and no one normal will care about your past. Good luck.

YANBU. Some people just have a very black and white simplistic thought process and very little critical thought or empathy for others. That’s all there is to it to be honest l.

I totally agree with you, but I'd also add the thing I really dislike is that people seem to think it's okay to punish children for their parents' poor choices too.

Which also makes it harder for the children to break the cycle of their parents' poor choices. And then makes them more likely to make poor choices of their own.

I also think a lot of people struggle to acknowledge that some people simply have less choices than they do- and sometimes have to pick the least bad option.

Almost like the system is stacked against certain people. Almost like it might not solely be down to one's choices.

The thing is we know now that trauma and ACE 's actually affect the way the brain develops and reacts. We know that they can have long lasting effects not only on mental health, but physical health as well. So it's daft to say "oh if only you were more resilient ".

It also depends how many times you get kicked down. At some point , you do break... and how that looks is different to everyone.

It also depends what those poor choices are and the consequences for them and if you're lucky enough not to follow you around or result in further trauma.

It's hard to make good choices in the midst of a breakdown, or depression or when you're constantly in fight or flight mode. It's hard to want more , to be more and to strive for better when you think and feel you are worthless. It's hard to fight and keep going and "achieve" when you're exhausted simply from surviving. It's hard to make good choices when you have no support , no help and the only coping mechanisms easily available are unhealthy coping mechanisms.

It's easy to judge and pat yourself on the back because you're more resilient and "those people" just aren't trying hard enough.

Your sense of self worth can definitely be eroded to such a degree that you don't find yourself worthy of the 'good choices'
They don't even appear on your radar. They are alien to you.
They belong to people who are worth more than you, those who don't actively dislike themselves.

I am divided on this.

I don’t think it’s about being ‘middle-class’ - it’s about having a loving supportive family, a safety net.

Obviously if you have had a very traumatic childhood that is going to affect you deeply. But for those who have had an ok but not ideal childhood, with some negative experiences, you have to put that behind you and move on. Once you are aware then you can decide that the choices you make going forward are yours alone - you are more than the sum of your past experiences.

@HotSince82 well said.

It certainly is harder to make good life choices if the examples that were modelled to you as a child/young person were not good and also if you had fewer resources (although I think money is slightly overstated here).

It is hard to know what "normal" or "healthy" behaviour is like in the context of human relationships if what was modelled to you was not normal or healthy and it can take people a long time and a lot of work to "unlearn" behaviours like this.

That said, I think that you can only use this excuse up to a certain point. It's entirely reasonable, if you had poor relationship models, as a child, to find it difficult to pick a good partner at 18. Less so at 32 and after several failed relationships. I think every adult has a responsibility to examine their life critically and make an honest assessment as to whether they have done the right thing and, if they haven't, to learn lessons. Particularly when they have dependent children.

I also think its more random than you suggest. I know people from incredibly tough backgrounds who have turned out fairly well and others who have had extremely supportive and affluent backgrounds who haven't. A lot of this is more innate than we like to admit.