Trivialising everyday sexism adds to the bigger problem.

[Whatdoyouthinkof]

I’ve starting thinking about how society encourages younger women/girls to romanticise sexist behaviour in men until they end up in real day to day life with adult responsibilities of children and a job and realise that perhaps allowing a man to call the shots or letting them believe their identity/wants were more superior has created a situation with women making more sacrifices in their lives?

The behaviour I think of is..women changing their maiden names and not really questioning that tradition, Disney films focusing on romantic relationships with men and girls being saved..can’t think of a single show aimed at boys focusing on their romances with women. Women waiting for men to decide to marry them when the time is right for them. Men’s names first on Christmas cards Obviously there are the huge problems of gender pay etc. but I’m thinking of the mindset which is created in smaller acts.

Am I unreasonable to think not worrying about the smaller problems/mindset and calling them trivial add to the big problems?

I call every single one of them out. Be the change you want to see and all that.

Agree with you, if they were the only examples left, things would be a lot better than now. Every step helps though.

Me too.
Including at work - I think I am your username to the People Team at my place of work!

I get sick of being told how to think and act regardless of who is telling me whether that is men or women the 'patriarchy' or 'feminism' or whatever label people want to stick on it

I also think people don't think women actually have a brain and need to be spoken about like when people speak of an elderly hard of hearing relative like they are not in the room

Yup, totally agree. I call them out a lot. But am definitely seen as a totally OTT crazy feminist who sweats the small stuff.

Even at DS' high school - prospectus has message from Chair of Governors, then Head teacher, then head boy, then head girl. Really really annoyed me but I was told by a million people, including on here, that I really need to stop getting so worked up about small things.

It's also the endless small default assumptions.... no man is EVER asked how childcare will be managed but it's always asked of women. Only women invited to join the class WhatsApp group - you have to make a point of asking for your (male) DP to be added. Ditto, women getting called first even when the dad is put down as the primary parent.

And of course, the fact that men are all quite happy with this. I consider DH "one of the good ones" but I can assure you, he's not reading the bloody school emails, responding to the class whatsapps or feeling a minute of guilt if they send round messages begging for help.....

Just thought of another..the phrase working mum in 2023..a man would never be referred to as a workingman. My husband does drop offs and people have commented on him doing it because I’m a working mum.

Oh the irony!

Films are entertainment though, will all script writers have to reach a consensus with their audience on how life should be depicted- this sounds a bit 'Thought Police' to me. My DD who is nearly 12 was obsessed with Tinkerbell, dressed up as Tinkerbell (all of the time), she then moved on to a Tangled obsession and pretty much wore the Rapunzel dress everywhere but this corresponded with an equal obsession with the Cbeebies cartoon of Peter Rabbit. All these interests are traditionally feminine I suppose, dresses, fairies and cute little fury animals but she has an older brother who she played Lego with and would sometimes play Star Wars with but she still gravitated towards the above interests. I was the same but has zero bearing on her outlook now she has no romantic notions of being saved by a boy/man and plans to live with her friend in New York running a fashion empire and animal sanctuary on the side. So no, I don't agree with your premise.

I absolutely agree with you that the constant drip, drip, drip really does have a significant effect in society. But yes, people will tell you you're mad, it's all in your head, you're a rabid feminist etc. etc. etc.

I started a thread yesterday about my partner always coming first on bills even though I set everything up and own the house. A lot of people were very upset that I cared enough to start a tread, thought I was ridiculous and obviously had nothing bigger to worry about.

Completely agree. But someone will be along to tell you feminism is about choice and all women's choices should be respected. Sure, but it's because of feminism that you HAVE a choice. And not all choices are feminist.

Changing names on marriage is a massive bugbear to me. On an individual level, no, it doesn't matter, each to their own etc, but societally, every individual choice contributes to the furthering of a patriarchal culture and all the other assumptions that come with that. If a man decides to take his wife's name, there's often a reaction – it's weird or performative or an insult to his family or some bollocks. Until we get to a stage where it's equally normal for women and men to change or not change their name, we need to keep shouting about it. Ditto the other examples you gave. It's a slippery slope from dad not doing the school run to men opting out of family life being normalised.

Makes me wonder when is the right time to start caring..or do we just ignore it as trivial matters and pretend inequality isn’t a real problem🤷‍♀️

Those are ants piss in ocean.

I’m more worried about women who date men who watch porn.
Those men openly show their hatred towards women, but women insist that these are ’good men’ 🫤

I had a similar response when I started a thread about being referred to as "Mrs DH" on Christmas cards.

I was told that I clearly didn't have any other problems and asked "is this really a hill you want to die on?" As if wanting to be called by my own fucking name was an insane request.

When I got married and didn't change my name so many people asked me how my husband felt about that, nobody asked how I felt about him not changing his name to mine.

The examples like this may seem small but it's all part of the much larger problem and it does all matter.

But the myriad small instances of sexism all contribute to the environment in which the bigger issues happen. Pulling people up on the small things doesn't mean you don't worry more about the big ones, ffs - I reckon that doing so makes it easier to then engage with those too.

Yes, but what good is it if your husband (let’s not forget that marriage in and of itself is patriarchal, so why even do that?) is okey with keeping your own name, if he soends time jerking off to abused women.
Like wow! What a win!

To be clear, I don’t disagree with op, but man doing the dishes isin’t much of victory to women if he is a porn watcher.

I do think a lot of these things are (thankfully) changing, albeit slowly. We live in semi-rural Kent and I see a reasonable mix of fathers and mothers at drop-off and in the WhatsApp group. I didn't change my name on marriage and the children and the DC have double-barrelled surnames - nobody has ever really remarked on it.

What really annoys me is the structural issues that drive inequality and reduce choice for women. Good quality, reliable childcare around here is at an absolute premium. Childminders have limited availability and many are limited in terms of drop off and pick up times (our last one didn't allow drop offs between 8 and 9:30 for example). Nurseries are often term time or close early, and all of them are inconveniently located for us. We eventually went for a nanny, which is great of course, but not a viable choice for many. Unsurprisingly there are a lot of women at DD's school who don't find it possible to work.

That's a really odd false dichotomy ... no one is saying 'worry about the small stuff but don't challenge the big stuff'.
Which boy or man is more likely to think porn is ok - the one who lives in a world where women ensure they're treated equally and with respect, or the one who is allowed to get away with disrespect and not treating girls/women as equals? Which girl/woman is more likely to challenge the porn user - the one who expects respect and equality in all things, or the one who doesn't?

What really annoys me is the structural issues that drive inequality and reduce choice for women. Good quality, reliable childcare around here is at an absolute premium. Childminders have limited availability and many are limited in terms of drop off and pick up times (our last one didn't allow drop offs between 8 and 9:30 for example). Nurseries are often term time or close early, and all of them are inconveniently located for us. We eventually went for a nanny, which is great of course, but not a viable choice for many. Unsurprisingly there are a lot of women at DD's school who don't find it possible to work.

When DD was in primary, I don't think any of the mothers worked FT, except for the ones who had parents who helped them with childcare, or if they had an au pair.
But the massive sexism is that it was always the mothers - mostly professionals - who dropped their hours. I did; it would have been much better if both DH and I could have dropped to maybe 2/3 rather than me to half , but his employer simply wouldn't have allowed that whereas mine did. That's one of the big things that's really hard to challenge.

Certainly all the things you mention, OP, are holdouts from a time when women were essentially property and had no agency.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4762351-bills-with-the-mans-name-first?page=4&reply=124624823

Im staggeres that A fair old whack of people on this thread think this is a complete non issue.

I read your thread and when I saw this one wondered if it had been promoted by yours!

You and OP are right. I'm in my 50s and the normalized sexist crap that I've noticed and had to tut and roll my eyes at since childhood is ridiculous.
It does matter. It is the very thin edge of a large and devastating wedge.

All the small things add up for sure. Its all the small things, we hardly notice because they happen so much and so quietly, that add up. Stuff society does not notice or sees it as 'not a big deal', because there are bigger issues. But I totally agree, addressing the small stuff, leads a long way to addressing the bigger stuff.

This is a good watch:

Marriage does not have to be patriarchal.