Page 3 | Disenfranchised older voters

overtaxedunderling · 2023-03-14T10:33:57+00:00

Just had an elderly relative raise concerns. Apparently the law changed last year and in all future elections, photo ID will be required for an elector to vote in person. Postal voters will be able to carry on as before. Those with no photo ID can apply for a certificate online. Am I wrong to think that the group of individuals who tend to value their vote the most are at greatest risk of losing their ability to vote? a) YABU - it's the 21st century and those in their 80s and above need to get with it. b) YANBU - the convenience of those running public services should not adversely impact those entitled to use them.

adriftindenofvipers · 16/03/2023 00:56

Wontbringlulu · 16/03/2023 00:51

Nonsense.

UK (apart from Northern Ireland) was the only country in the EU where you didn't need photo ID.

If we'd stayed in the EU it would no doubt have become compulsory in due course.

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I'm as cynical about the Tories as the next woman.

However experience shows that there has not been a mass disenfranchisement of the disadvantaged in NI.

eloquent · 16/03/2023 00:59

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 14/03/2023 18:12

Personation is virtually non-existent in UK elections, but we're supposed to believe that the Tories, for no reason whatsoever, brought about a bill intended to tackle a non-existent problem, but not only that, it will adversely affect Tory core voter base and disenfranchise those above all?

Utterly risible.

It's a shameless attempt to disenfranchise poor and disadvantaged people who are already the least likely to vote, but overwhelmingly vote for parties other than the Tories when they do. Anyone who understands the first thing about structural discrimination can immediately see this naked shithousing for exactly what it is. This government has been so consistently abhorrent for years that they are now running scared of a backlash from disaffected minorities who would ordinarily not bother voting, so what better way to neuter that threat than making it even more difficult and unlikely for them to vote? The Republicans have been pulling the same shit in the States for years. No wonder this criminal cartel in Westminster are taking a leaf out of the Trump playbook. They've descended to his level in every other respect.

Trying to pass this off as anything other than shithouse politics 101 is utterly laughable.

🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Absolutely this

Zebedee55 · 16/03/2023 05:02

I keep my passport going, even though I can't travel now, and DH has a driving license, so not a problem.

But, during Covid they asked us if we want to have postal voting, going forward, so we do that now. Elderly people can ask for it in any area.

sugarapplelane · 02/04/2023 13:22

I’ve just received my polling card which states in the reverse the photo ID accepted.
I must have been living in a bubble as this is the first time I’ve heard if the requirements, but apparently DH knew all about it. Why hasn’t there been more publicity?

What I’m more concerned about is that the types of ID accepted is massively skewed towards the older population e.g bus passes, but no student ID accepted.

Is this a covert form of voter suppression?

We’ll stop the youngsters voting as they are more likely to vote for our competitors, but actively encourage the older generation who are more likely to be right wing.

AgnesX · 02/04/2023 13:25

Why do you think that particular demographic value their vote more than any other.

I'm nowhere near that one but I value my vote and will bang on about the value of being franchised to anyone that will listen.

If they value it they'll make the effort to use it.

sugarapplelane · 02/04/2023 16:11

Sorry, but I don’t know what you’re talking about.

I’m taking about the forms of photo I.d allowed. An older persons Bus passes, oyster 60+ Card, but why can’t any oyster card be used? Why only a +60?
From what I can see only a passport or driving license can be used in England for youngsters unless they are disabled.

sunstreaming · 02/04/2023 18:49

No-one needs to be 'hard hit' or disenfranchised by this legislation (although I think it is a silly waste of time) In fact, IF it was designed to stop younger people who are maybe more likely to not vote Tory, then it has succeeded because rather than just going and getting a free ID from the local council https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate, people are making a fuss, suggesting 'taking to the streets.' I also doubt whether there are hordes of young people who don't have the ID to get a drink in a pub. But whatever your reason for not already having ID which enables you to vote, there is NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER for not applying for the free one from your council. If the person in question cannot manage to negotiate the required admin to do this, then help them. Although I doubt in this case, they would also have the intellect to make a decision about who to vote for.

Apply for photo ID to vote (called a ‘Voter Authority Certificate’)

Apply for photo ID to vote (Voter Authority Certificate) in some UK elections and referendums if you do not have an accepted form of ID.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

DownNative · 02/04/2023 18:56

Thismountain · 14/03/2023 10:45

I think student ID doesn't count as ID, so poorer younger people will find it more difficult to vote?

Young people are more likely to have ID in order to vote than the general public.

Those who don't can apply for a FREE Voter Authority Certificate.

cupofteaandabiccyplease · 02/04/2023 18:58

How many people actually bother to vote in this country? I've never bothered and not going to start now. I can't complain about services as a result. Each government is self serving, no matter who is elected in.
A Sir in charge of a working class party, really?

DownNative · 02/04/2023 18:59

sugarapplelane · 02/04/2023 16:11

Sorry, but I don’t know what you’re talking about.

I’m taking about the forms of photo I.d allowed. An older persons Bus passes, oyster 60+ Card, but why can’t any oyster card be used? Why only a +60?
From what I can see only a passport or driving license can be used in England for youngsters unless they are disabled.

Incorrect.

Young people can apply for a card with the PASS logo too. Example:

https://www.citizencard.com/apply-for-a-uk-id-card-online

Apply for a UK ID card Online - CitizenCard

Apply for a valid UK ID card and proof of age - the Home Office & Police approved. CitizenCard offers simple first photo ID or replacement card online application. Services: urgent 1-2 working days; standard - up to 21 days.

https://www.citizencard.com/apply-for-a-uk-id-card-online

DownNative · 02/04/2023 19:13

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 14/03/2023 18:12

Personation is virtually non-existent in UK elections, but we're supposed to believe that the Tories, for no reason whatsoever, brought about a bill intended to tackle a non-existent problem, but not only that, it will adversely affect Tory core voter base and disenfranchise those above all?

Utterly risible.

It's a shameless attempt to disenfranchise poor and disadvantaged people who are already the least likely to vote, but overwhelmingly vote for parties other than the Tories when they do. Anyone who understands the first thing about structural discrimination can immediately see this naked shithousing for exactly what it is. This government has been so consistently abhorrent for years that they are now running scared of a backlash from disaffected minorities who would ordinarily not bother voting, so what better way to neuter that threat than making it even more difficult and unlikely for them to vote? The Republicans have been pulling the same shit in the States for years. No wonder this criminal cartel in Westminster are taking a leaf out of the Trump playbook. They've descended to his level in every other respect.

Trying to pass this off as anything other than shithouse politics 101 is utterly laughable.

The point of Voter ID is NOT actually to deal with voter impersonation which is the point the Electoral Commission made as far back as 2014!

Rather, the point is to increase confidence in the electoral system which Northern Ireland has proven. In fact, the Electoral Commission's reports have a habit of pointing out that Northern Ireland's voter ID requirement is a success.

The GB voter ID is based on Northern Ireland's....yet you reached straight for.....Trump?! 🤦‍♂️

The voter ID requirement brings GB into line with Northern Ireland which is very welcome. In reality, the young, poor and disabled are NOT disenfranchised in Northern Ireland or any of the European states which require Voter ID.

It's odd how it's GB lefties behaving quite irrationally on this one. If anyone doesn't have or can't afford ID, they can simply apply for a FREE Voter Authority Certificate.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

If the intent is to disenfranchise anyone who doesn't vote Conservative....this is a very funny way of going about it. 🤷‍♂️

Apply for photo ID to vote (called a ‘Voter Authority Certificate’)

Apply for photo ID to vote (Voter Authority Certificate) in some UK elections and referendums if you do not have an accepted form of ID.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

Nat6999 · 02/04/2023 21:49

There have been less than 4 convictions for voter fraud, this is just another way of the Tories trying to create a class divide.

DojaPhat · 02/04/2023 22:11

Old voters are the demographic the tories are courting. The tories would probably offer them a lift to a polling station if they so required. Their free oyster cards can be used as voter ID but the equivalent for young people cannot be used. How curious...

DownNative · 03/04/2023 10:35

DojaPhat · 02/04/2023 22:11

Old voters are the demographic the tories are courting. The tories would probably offer them a lift to a polling station if they so required. Their free oyster cards can be used as voter ID but the equivalent for young people cannot be used. How curious...

Its not curious at all when you realise that young people are more likely to have ID than the general population. 🤷‍♂️

midgemadgemodge · 03/04/2023 10:36

Oyster cards

What are they then ?

Oh google - a London thing

Seeline · 03/04/2023 11:11

To be fair @midgemadgemodge
Population Wales 3.2 million
Population Scotland 5.5 million
Population London 9.4 million

Neededanewuserhandle · 03/04/2023 11:13

MrsandProud · 14/03/2023 10:41

It's unlikely MN will care about this issue as very little sympathy is shown here for older people TBH

Perhaps start a petition or something similar?

Agreed - also MN is weirdly pro photo ID to be produced for almost anything.

Neededanewuserhandle · 03/04/2023 11:14

DojaPhat · 02/04/2023 22:11

Old voters are the demographic the tories are courting. The tories would probably offer them a lift to a polling station if they so required. Their free oyster cards can be used as voter ID but the equivalent for young people cannot be used. How curious...

What do you mean "would probably" - this is a well known tactic and has been for years.

Neededanewuserhandle · 03/04/2023 11:15

Nat6999 · 02/04/2023 21:49

There have been less than 4 convictions for voter fraud, this is just another way of the Tories trying to create a class divide.

It's to appeal to ID card authoritarian weirdos.

Blossomtoes · 03/04/2023 11:16

overtaxedunderling · 14/03/2023 10:42

It's on the list - but outside of cities, many places have little or no bus services.

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That doesn’t mean they haven’t got a bus pass. Or couldn’t get one.

Ijustdontcare · 03/04/2023 12:21

Nat6999 · 02/04/2023 21:49

There have been less than 4 convictions for voter fraud, this is just another way of the Tories trying to create a class divide.

And is that because it doesn't happen or that without checking ID's It's insanely hard to prove.

It's strange that it's mainly left-wingers moaning about this and saying it will affect young people the most when 99% of 18-28yr olds have ID already.

It will be interesting to see the new voting figures from all those massive labour seats in London at the next general election.