Is it okay to be rude and grumpy when you’re tired

[SebHH]

I’m struggling following a row between DH and DD (23 and not living at home but has no place of her own and stays for few days here and there)… The row is a familiar one and goes like this. DH comes back around 9pm after a long day at work, tired and ready to eat kebab has brought back with him. For context DH slightly obsessional and unable to relax until house tidy to his standard so will often come in and tidy up even though rest of us wdnt see place as messy- he’s aware he needs to do this and asks (of me) that I let him do it (even though I feel him to be a bit of a grumpy presence until it’s done which means he can bring a bit of a cloud through the door with him)
Tonight when he came in DD was cooking something to take in for her lunch tomorrow… although she wasn’t making a mess he would experience it as one and wouldn’t be able to relax/eat his supper and wd feel annoyed. Row erupts when she asks about his day and his reply is “short”/ abrupt- she experiences this as rude. I tend to think she has a point, that even if tired no excuse to be grumpy/rude but I don’t get involved as DH would feel I wasn’t taking his side/I think my getting involved makes things worse rather than better. But row upsets me. And left unsure if it’s fair he’s tired and grumpy and she should be accepting of that or if tiredness no excuse to be grumpy/rude

Sorry long ramble

This sounds horrible op. I get anxious around people who are moody and grumpy.

Is it OK to be rude and grumpy when you're tired?
Yes, it's OK to be a bit rude and grumpy. It's not right to tell someone to fuck off but it's OK to answer questions in a short way that indicates you're not up for conversation and want space
It's rude and provocative to then respond with "Omg, grumpy or what. I was only asking. No need to speak to me like that"
I'd be interested to know the details of the argument. OP said "so not sure if it’s my sensitivity to ordinary/acceptable grumpiness or whether it’s out of order".
What's been described is ordinary acceptable grumpiness.

Now what's going on in the rest of the marrriage might be a different matter. He sounds like he has OCD with accompany control issues...OP sounds like what my gran called a 'whittler', fussing around and wanting everything to run perfectly. There also needs to be clarity/boundaries with the daughter. Is this her home or not. I assumed not as she was away at uni.
I've been accused of sexism on this thread. I wonder what the response would be if it was a breast feeding mum who just wanted 5 mins of peace and had snapped.

You’ve hit the nail on the head. I also think there is more to it with the daughter who comes and goes sometimes bringing a partner and doing whatever she likes when she likes and then strops when daddy isn’t delighted by her antics. Especially odd when she is well in to her 20s.

Your poor DD. It’s a shame you can’t wake up and see that you’re with a man who dictates the mood of the house and who you pander to and walk on eggshells for. That’s your issue, not hers. I can’t understand why you’d even consider taking his side. I guess it’s ‘easier. For you if not your DD. I hope your DD goes on to have higher standards for herself. Wake up.

He sounds unsuited to living with other people. But he can cope with you because he's 'trained' you to abide by his ways.

Have you told him that you don't particularly enjoy him coming home because he sucks the joy out of life?

He is treating your daughter horribly

He sounds like he treats you badly too, but you accept it

If we wants to have a little tidy when he comes in, that is fine, but he doesn't get to be rude to people if he cant.

You say he's like this when he comes home from work tired. What's he like normally? Is he always grumpy or is he OK?

I don't think anyone is coming across well here .. the DD sounds like she is free loading, moving from one place to another and just deciding to cook at 9pm when she is aware that her Dad is coming home and likes a bit of peace and quiet and a tidy house (which by the sound of it he is happy to tidy).

I would find it irritating if I cam home late from work and just wanted to sit in peace and eat my meal ... assuming the 'dining' table is in the kitchen ... if my adult DS had decided to drop in that evening and started some cooking.

I don't think I am rude and grumpy but when I come home from work I really want to decompress and not have to chat to anyone ... my DH is retired so he often wants to talk .. he probably does think I am rude and grumpy .

”My House My Rules!”

Have you ever had any feedback as to what it is like to live under the cosh of “My House My Rules”? Or is feedback also not countenanced because your Thy Holy Will is the only one permitted. How about an expression of difference of opinion?

As if we don’t know the answer, the same as for Kebab Man.

Sounds like ever has to dance to his tune and have the house how he likes and if isn't exactly how he wants he's an arsehole and makes sure everyone knows he's unimpressed.

Your poor dd, not having a place of her own. Where is she staying? Can't she stay at yours all the time?

Mind you, would she want to live with your h? It's all about him: his wants, his needs, his moods, everyone pussyfooting round him. No thanks. He's not the only person in the house.

Is DD the daughter of your DH?

I don’t understand why he’s always so grumpy? I used to work until 10pm but I managed to come home and be pleasant, even if I had a shit day, especially to my children.

He sounds really difficult to live with.

Ask yourself this question.....

When your DH comes home all tired and grumpy with the people he is supposed to care for more than anyone else in the world, would he act the same if a neighbour, a relation, a work colleague was there?

I'm guessing he would be all sweetness and light......

I’m a miserable bitch when I’m tired and hungry so I’m with your husband. However my husband works much later than yours and he bounds in like a golden retriever full of smiles and joy. Just very different personality types! Neither of us can relax in a messy house though.

Gosh. Have you been the victim of something?

I have received plentiful feedback on what it's like to live with me.

DH - suits him, he doesn't have to lift a finger. We have a smooth and easy arrangement. None of this has been a topic of conversation since we first moved in together, let alone an issue. I have no idea what he spends on his cars and bikes and don't remotely begrudge him the time he spends on them. They bring him satisfaction and enjoyment. He hasn't the first clue what I spend on the house and our home life and it wouldn't occur to him to question it. He knows this is how I am. He can be an irritable and anxious bugger a lot of the time. This is just the way we are, and it works for us, harmoniously.

DC - they moan and they groan, but I don't care. It's not okay to leave wet towels on the floor, to leave the house in the morning without opening curtains and ideally making an attempt at making the bed, to get up from the table and not take dishes to the table, to leave a trail of belongings and socks and hoodies and books wherever they go. They're my kids, it's my job to house train them so they can look after themselves and their families when they're older.

The DC are free to do whatever they want when they're taking responsibility for their actions. For as long as I'm taking responsibility, it's house rules.

DC - they moan and they groan, but I don't care.

All we need to know about you.

I’m not a victim at all, but my life improved immeasurably when I stopped living with someone like you- same as everyone who has been in that position. I at least had the decency to reciprocate my not caring by removing myself from their life. I wish they could have done the same.

Interesting. What do you think my caring about the millionth moan and groan about wet towels might do for my DC? There’s nothing they can say that would make me not teach them that this is disrespectful to the next person in the bathroom. Period.

I’m sure it wasn’t anything as basic as wet towels that you had to deal with, but in your adult version of wet towels on the floor, did you remove yourself from the situation so as not to be called out on whatever it was you were doing that the other person couldn’t handle?

There’s no moral superiority to cleanliness/tidiness or filth/mess. It’s about control, and I imagine that you struggled with someone controlling you. Yes, I “control” my children if that’s what you call teaching manners and respect is. I’m controlling about lots of things on that basis: chewing with mouths open, coughing without covering mouths, losing their 4th water bottle this year etc etc. I am far more entitled to not have to pick up after them and waste good money on replacement gear lost through carelessness, than they are to be thoughtless and scatter brained and wasteful. They’re perfectly capable. They just need to pay attention to these things. They’re kids. It’s normal that they don’t care. But I’m a parent and it’s normal that I teach them to care.

He just got in at 9pm from a day at work, wanted to come home, switch off and eat his dinner in peace. but there’s someone taking up the kitchen with cooking stuff, noises and smells, wanting a jolly old chat. I completely get where he’s coming from! If I’m in that mood I can barely form a sentence.

Some people need time to decompress. Give him half an hour to himself when he gets in.

What do you think my caring about the millionth moan and groan about wet towels might do for my DC?
Perhaps your efforts would be better spent on wondering why your teaching methods are woefully ineffective?
There are loads of ways of teaching manners and respect, which aren’t utterly joyless for the children.

There’s no moral superiority to cleanliness/tidiness or filth/mess. It’s about control, and I imagine that you struggled with someone controlling you.

Do you have any idea how sinister you sound?

It’s really quite simple, emotionally competent and stable people can express themselves and their needs in a way that is not at the expense of others happiness. The description of the OP’s husband is not of an emotionally competent person. He should be able to handle that situation in a way that is not at the expense of his child.

The whole family is on edge to his moods. Because he is Joyless. That’s what Joyless people do, it’s their thing.

@Alpiniste I think we’re reading the same thing differently. My dc are very far from adult, but the OP’s daughter is 23yo. Old enough to live in different places, old enough to have a partner and bring him/her to her parents’ home to stay, old enough to appreciate that coming home from work at 9pm, her dad (who’s unlikely to be a spring chicken himself) is going to be tired and possibly short, and old enough to see her parent as a human with faults. Old enough for some emotional competence, one might say. He’s not just as her father, who must continue to make allowances for her child status (until when?). It cuts both ways at a certain point. If she wants the freedom to come and go as she pleases, must her parents adjust their moods and ways in their own home when she deigns to grace them with her presence, so as not to risk offending her?

As I said earlier, I don’t think the DH was nasty. I think he was probably rude. There’s no cause ever for rudeness. But it’s not on to only ever expect one party to make allowances in a relationship between adults. She’s not a child any more and I expect she would take objection to being treated as one.

I will not spend a single moment looking for a joyful way to teach my children to pick their wet towels up off the bathroom floor. Jesus, who’s got the time for that??! Generation snowflake 2.0 incoming… They can moan all they want. If they don’t want me to nag, they can pick up their towels. Simple. They’re fully functioning humans, better able than I am to bend over and pick up their towels. Joyless, indeed!

My husband behaves this way. Obsessional about cleaning, moody while doing so, a bit rude during, huffy. He is autistic but this is a learnt behaviour from his mother. When he feels overwhelmed he behaves just like his mum. I am consistently boundaried and ask him to make a choice … either talk about issues properly in a constructive manner or to stop huffing and keep it inside as it effects everybody else or go for a walk to get the grumpiness out of his system alone. The kids and I respect the fact that he might need quiet space and time to come round and will not be chatty. I don’t tolerate poor behaviour it at all and always call it out (kindly and quietly) so over the years it has got better. He is otherwise a very kind loving family man.

He has you trained to tip toe around him. It’s not you but I guess this is going on for years ? He’s the king of the castle and he won’t change now

He doesn't sound like a nice man. Poor DD.

Not OK to be rude and grumpy when tired, but if it happens occasionally, understandable.

However from your description it's not quite clear that your husband was terribly rude, just not in the mood for chatting in the example you have given. I'm quite introverted and sometimes when I come back from work I am decisioned-out and peopled-out, and someone happily asking about my day might have meant that I gave a very short response (luckily my partner is also introverted and understands). This might have been exacerbated if he has particular thoughts about tidying/cleaning (that I would say is more common in women than men).

Unless you are going to tell us that he comes in every night being rude and grumpy, YABU.