To think this will just increase pressure on the poorest/vulnerable?

[Zebedee55]

Sanctions increased, putting more (often unrealistic) pressure on parents, carers, and sick/disabled.🙁

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/universal-credit-sanctions-hunt-budget-b2298836.html

Honestly @Moonicorn is getting such a hard time for simply suggesting the obvious

Moonicorn asked whether autism is just a personality type. Moonicorn is either being deliberately goady or has its head rather too far up its moon.

I was one of the first ones to mention that I was a carer for my partner when he had depression.

I got £0 for it.

He got £0 universal credit for his illness.

Being a carer for someone isn’t about financial gains. I was his “carer” because it meant I could have adaptations at my work. For example, I was allowed my mobile phone on my desk, it was understood that I may need to take time off at short notice or leave early, and so on.

Me neither! Ex Labour voter, politically homeless, strong remainer. Just get called a liar but 🤷🏼‍♀️

Isn’t it? I’ve heard it being described as such. Nobody seems to be able to tell me whether it’s a personality type, a difference in physical brain structure, or a disability. Why is it so wrong to ask? It can’t just mean whatever you want it to mean in the moment, surely there’s an accepted definition?

Two people can have conditions that affect them in different ways.

I've worked with couples where one has MH problems and the other has physical issues, or (in one very memorable case) both had MH issues and LDs, one also had an ASD, but they were able in different ways. X did the cooking, shopping and managed the money, but Y to go out with X, because she couldn't go out alone because of PTSD. He also needed her to accompany him because he couldn't read signs or cross the road safely. He would have gone out in his PJs, if she hadn't made sure he dressed properly, and would fly off the handle if he thought someone was looking at him "funny" and she used to rein him in. While he couldn't safely be left alone for long, she'd be ok for a few hours, but would get very distressed.

Both were very vulnerable, but in different ways, and cared for each other. Interestingly, ASC thought they would never be able to live independently and would have to go into residential care, but after 2 years of intensive support and coaching, and another 2 years of support on an ad hoc basis, they are now living fully independently, apart from financially.

Why is it so wrong to ask?

Because a simple bit of reading and research would give you the answer. HTH.

@Moonicorn i agree! I have suffered with clinical depression since my teens and have at times been in crisis. I find that the routine of work and having things to focus on other than my depression helps me to get better and remain well! I am medicated and will be forever and i can manage to work. The reason mental health has a stigma attached when it comes to benefits is because it is the benefit fraudsters choice of illness! It cannot be proven/disproved with blood tests, scans etc and these people know exactly what symptoms to trot out to convince doctors they are ill!

There was a thread on here full of mums with autistic children with high care needs. Their kids are non-verbal, in nappies, act out and hurt themselves and others because they can't communicate their needs and distress.
Please go and ask them if it is just a "personality type", and see how that goes.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/autism/

I've no idea, sorry.

Yes indeed.

It’s fascinating, but also sad to see the UK go from a developed back to a developing country.

Totally agree, @pointythings .

If there was more support in the community for people with MH issues, there would probably be more people with MH issues able to work, even if only p/time.

Ironically, the NHS funds services to support people with MH issues to get back to work, but doesn't seem to want to fund community services that might help them get to the point where they are able to consider working.

Isn’t it? I’ve heard it being described as such. Nobody seems to be able to tell me whether it’s a personality type, a difference in physical brain structure, or a disability. Why is it so wrong to ask? It can’t just mean whatever you want it to mean in the moment, surely there’s an accepted definition?

It's a neurological disorder, so yes a disability. Plenty of books and medical research on it if you wish to learn. But you don't. So stop being facetious and minimising other people's disabilities.

A person in the latter category wouldn't qualify for a high enough level of disability benefits to qualify someone for carers allowance.

@Moonicorn

Some people are way too far hyper sensitive and assume cause they have experience or awareness of something and knowledgeable,

That everyone is like that,

Which ironically is being arrogant side and condescending, patronising thinking everyone has same knowledge about certain subjects, such as Autusim ect,

Wow. Some of the prejudice against depression is astounding.

My partner wants to get better. He is devasted that his life has fallen apart around him. He is an absolute shell of the man he was when we met. He talks about suicide a lot. He can't see a way out. In the process of claiming UC and PIP, started on meds. The meds don't seem to be helping much yet.

When you have watched someone go from a confident, extroverted, fun-loving, happy-go-lucky, hard-working person to the depths of depression, you really realise it's not as easy as "just try". He does try. He tries to get out bed, he tries to shower, he tries to walk his dog, he tried to eat food, he tries not to cry all day, he tried not to think about killing himself. He put off leaving work and going on UC for so long out of pride as he has always worked and provided for himself. He clung on for so long, just dropping and dropping hours (self-employed) that he ended up with no savings and debts because he wasn't earning enough but didn't want to claim. He eventually couldn't carry on and has now made a claim and is not working... says this illness has ruined his life. He is on a waiting list for therapy. If he could have carried on working, he would have done!!

This is a man who has been struggling to even feed himself and been relying on food parcels from the council or borrowing from friends and family for the past couple of months literally because he couldn't work enough hours to pay his bills, but he also felt too ashamed with himself to put a claim in! The weight he has lost is shocking. He looks so ill.

@WhataKant that must be heartbreaking. However I wouldn't think sharing those details will stop people like @Moonicorn asserting that he'd be better if he tried a bit harder.

Posters like her are proud of what they post. They're not ill informed. It's deliberate. Don't let people like her get to you.

When you have people with Down’s Syndrome and in wheelchairs working, I can’t see how ‘depression’ can be justified as a reason for others to pay for you for 30 years. A couple of months signed off work, yes.

I wonder if you've ever met anyone with severe, chronic depression that doesn't respond to medication. @Moonicorn ? People who have no motivation to get out of bed save to piss, not even to feed themselves, or wash themselves? Who are so utterly in despair they can barely speak, or listen, and are constantly beset with really dark and troubling thoughts? Who end up killing themselves because it's so utterly intolerable?

I'd rather kill myself now than go through a month of that. And I think if you had any idea what it's like, you'd probably say the same.

Having Downs Syndrome and legs that don't work is really shit, and very challenging, but different conditions affect people in different ways. And depression, for a lot of people, is far from being something that they recover from in a couple of months, for many it's never.

And every school has wrap around care ?

Yeah we're condescending and patronising because Moonicorn made deliberately goady comments about autism and pretends they don't have access to google. In pretty much every single thread about disability there's always a tiresome bore who thinks they're clever trying to pretend that autism isn't real or they "don't understand it" even though they've made no attempt to even google it and people are bored of listening to it.

It can't just mean whatever you want it to mean? Surely there's an accepted definition?

^^ This type of nonsense. The disgnostic criteria are very clearly defined. What Moonicorn "wants it to mean" is irrelevant.

I know. I think partly I haven't really opened up about it to people irl so it all just came out then as I was emotional about it.

It's just so sad because the types of views regarding depression that the likes of Moon have expressed are exactly what kept him from admitting he had a clinical problem and needed help for too long. I just had to watch him spiral and beg him to get help (we live separate), but he was determined not to admit defeat. His family are like Moon too, I think he has his own prejudices and couldn't face it was happening to him.

Yes, and people get so desperate that they pay £2k+ for an assessment, so that their kids can get the help they need without waiting for CAMHS to get round to it.

My friend has been waiting for CAMHS to actually come up with some sort of dagnosis for her son for nearly 6 years. He'll be 16 soon, I reckon he'll be under adult MH services before they get round to it.

And if he hasn't got an ASD of some sort, I'll eat Temple Grandin's book, page by page.

*had his own... Certainly doesn't now!

"I can understand a ‘carer’s allowance’ where the relative’s needs are so great you cannot earn a wage, but if you can, why is it needed?"

If you earn more than about £130 a week you cannot get carers allowance and if you go a penny over the earnings limit you lose all of it.