To think the NHS is beyond repair?

[NHSisfallingapart]

DS has been unwell with chickenpox. A couple of the blisters looked like they might be infected. It’s a Sunday and the GP is closed, when I rand their after hours line it just goes dead. I rang 111 for advice at noon and have been waiting for a return pcall ever since. Someone rang me a few hours ago to ask whether I stil want to speak with someone. They could not provide an estimate of when I will receive a return call and told me it’s a 24 hour service and I may be called at any hour.

AIBU to think the standard of care provided by the NHS is inadequate? I suspect DS needs antibiotics and I can’t do anything about it.

Honestly, you talk such tosh. In 2021 the uk system was rated 4th in the world above countries like Germany, France and Canada. Why do you keep implying the Tories are trying to wreck it.

You say in one paragraph the Tories don't care if you die ftom long term conditions. In the next paragraph you say you've received excellent care.

You just don't make sense.

Yes @Moreorlessmentallystable if they've got a prescribing qualification they can. My husband had an infected insect bite so went to the pharmacy to see if they could recommend something to put on it or if he needed to make a GP appointment (very difficult as you say). Pharmacist looked at it and said 'I can give you antibiotics for that' which meant he could start them immediately rather than waiting for an appointment.

@MarshaMelrose Because the conservatives have been starving the NHS of funding.
I have had excellent care because staff are trying to do their nest in spite of the Tories. Look at how long ambulances are taking because the Tories have fucked up social care.

I agree that the NHS is great but only once they've diagnosed the problem. Getting the diagnosis can be a nightmare.

My OH (who'd never been to the GP for years), had numerous GP appointments over a 2 year period for various ailments which suddenly and randomly started. Including fainting, hyperventilating, various pains in different parts of his body, rib pain, headaches and nausea, etc. GP did a few simple tests such as BP, basic blood tests, ECG, etc., but eventually started to tell him it was just "we're all getting older" and basically fobbing him off. After some excrutiating rib pains (for no reason, i.e. no exercising, heavy lifting, falls, etc), he saw a locum GP who took her own different blood test (didn't want to wait for a nurse appointment a few days later) - result came back next day, and she phoned OH to say she'd arranged an oncology appt the following week. Turned out it was a blood cell cancer - when we looked it up, all the signs were there, but his "normal" GPs didn't put 2+2 together to realise what it was - too busy thinking it was just "normal" ageing! Once he got the diagnosis, the treatment started straight away and is working (incurable but treatable).

Same with FIL who, despite being a fit and healthy 69 year old, stagnated in a hospital ward for months because they couldn't diagnose what was wrong with him. All the symptoms were of a bowel blockage (he'd previously had an operation on his aorta so they thought it could be scar tissue from that blocking the bowel), but they did x-rays and scans and couldn't see anything, so they just left him on the ward, waiting, and just treating the symptoms, i.e. giving him liquid food, treating the hospital acquired infections, all the while he was getting weaker and weaker. There was a definite "waiting to die" sort of attitude from the doctors and nurses because they didn't know what was wrong. Eventually, after 2 or 3 months, they decided to open him up at the site of his aorta operation, and yes, there was a bowel blockage. Then they quickly rectified it, got him back on foods, etc., and eventually he was well enough to come home. So they got there in the end, and once they knew what it was, the treatment all came together, but if they'd left it any longer to open him up, it would have been too late.

@Kazzyhoward I completely agree with you. The NHS is crap at diagnosis in my experience as well. Sure they may be great once you know what's wrong, but if they take too long to put the jigsaw pieces together and work it out (because they don't listen and keep fobbing you off) it may well be too late.

There is currently a strike on due to the government refusing to discuss the appealing working conditions ans pay of doctors. Its mental its not all over the news but.... the government

Social care is messed up because none of the past govts, including Labour have tackled it. As the population lives longer, the strain is greater. It needs a concerted plan from all parties to put something together for the future. Not one party putting forward suggestions like Johnson did only yo have the opposition pull itvdown. Politicians have yo start behaving like grown ups and work tofether for the good of the country. They need yobhave a panel of experts to give them Ll independent advice

You're receiving excellent care that is being funded. If, as you say, they were trying to close down long term care but keep emergency care going, we wouldn't be seeing the nightmare with ambulances because they'd have defunded the care you're receiving and re-allocated it to the paramedics and emergency depts.
How you can be happy with all the care your family is receiving but still criticise the govt for funding it, I just don't understand.

Social care is messed up because the Tories privatised social care and then refused to properly fund it. So there are not enough beds and not enough carers. These staff used to be employed by the local authorities.

It is the same as they did with dentistry. Fail to properly fund it so that all but the most expensive private care is all that remains in some areas.

And the crazy thing is it costs us far more money. Because we end up with lots of people in hospitals who should be at home with carers or in care homes.
Even simple things like equipment at home takes too long now. It used to be an easy quick process through the Red Cross. But now it can take weeks to arrange equipment so someone can leave hospital.

What sort of social care are you talking about?

Social care includes care homes, home carers, and equipment so someone can be at home. All three elements have to work properly. Delays in getting a hospital bed and commode in someone's home can mean a delay in discharge.

So you're talking about old people and those convalescing?

I am talking about people who need care after being in hospital. Whether because they have had a major illness like a stroke or a fall, or because they are in hospital because a chronic condition has worsened e.g. cancer. Up to 10% of hospital beds are taken by people like this who should be at home or in a care home, but there is as yet no care package set up. And even if you do the care as a relative, you still need the equipment delivered to your home.

Have you been seen yet or had contact from a clinician @NHSisfallingapart ? Just interested to know how long it takes between your call to 111 and getting contact with a clinician.
Also when they rang you back to check if you still needed care, you could have told them if your child had deteriorated and I suspect they would have increased the priority. As it was, he could wait.

I think a big part of the problem is the failure of people to take responsibility for their own health, ie not exercising and eating a bad diet etc

I think it's a sunny thing to have sought assistance for on a Sunday, and could have easily waited. Callback shouldn't have been so rubbish, but its probably an indication of how low this is on triage.

The NHS has amazing to my family for serious matters, but frustrating for more everyday things, or routine things like knee replacements.

I cant stand 111 though. They weren't concerned for my toddler, who actually had a brain tumour that required (and received) lifesaving surgery within 24 hours, and a couple of months in hospital, ignoring several official 'red flags'. Thank goodness I researched myself, saw the red flags, ignored 111 and acted on instinct.

In contrast, they massively panicked when my older child complained of chest pain, during the flu, and initially wanted me to rush her to a specialist until 90 mins away, to get there within the hour. They seemed confused when I said that wasn't physically possible, and thankfully I got a callback from someone who was quite sensible.

Sunny= silly

Which aibu do I vote for

Is the NHS beyond repair?

Or

Is the standard of care the NHS is offering inadequate?

No I don't think it's beyond repair

@CanOfPop
For old people, as far back as I remember, they had to fund their own care. I don't think council homes are always the best places for eqveryone. And they're often more expensive than many private homes, which often are just nicer places.

Closures of small hospitals and buildings that could have been developed for convalescence care happened under the Tories and continued under Labour. They both wanted showy, shiny hospitals, and there was no forward planning.

Even talking about equipment makes me cross. It can be unpredictable in arriving and almost impossible to give back. The waste of money that happens in that area alone is shocking.

And there's no joined up system between social care and the NHS. It's like they have no idea what the other is doing or does. It's been going on for years. Its the fault of all the parties putting this growing crisis off. And now all the parties need to get-together to make it work.

In my opinion, the Tories are responsible for bad decisions and short-termism. But so is Labour. Tony Blair cut waiting tomescwhen he got in. No doubt about that. I knewcpeoplecwhobad been waiting for years for hip replacements, constantly having operations cancelled. But he also made short-sighted decisions like over pfi.

It's not one side is all wrong and the other is all right. It's so much more complex than that.

Obviously, that's part of the problem, but even people who've lived a healthy life with plenty of exercise and healthy eating still get ill, particularly with all the various cancers that have no actual cause other than luck/genetics, and seemingly healthy people still have heart attacks, strokes, etc (look at that footballer who "died" on the pitch - Fabrice Muamba - his heart condition wasn't caused by not exercising was it?). Look at Olivia Newton John who was well known to have a healthy lifestyle, plenty of exercise, no "addictions", etc., who got Breast Cancer aged just 43!

In fact, "healthy" living is a potential cause of the current problems as people are living longer, lots of whom because of healthy lifestyle - as lots get older, their bodies are fine, but their mind is lost to Alzheimers/dementia etc., meaning they could need "care" for a decade or two at a cost far higher than a morbidly obese person or a heavy smoker who would be likely to die at a much younger age, saving not only long term care costs, but also saving from not having pension payments etc!

@MarshaMelrose Most care is privately funded. There still needs to be carers and and beds. I have personal experience here of a close relative who was in hospital. The discharge team helped set up the care package. But it took several weeks before there were carers available and before the equipment could be delivered.
The equipment is collected. Sorry but you obviously do not realise how it works. The NHS do not do this. The Red Cross provides hospital beds, commodes, etc. But years ago it was easy and quick. A bed delivered within two days IME. They have had major funding cuts and it took a few weeks to get everything. Nothing to do with inefficiency. And they collect them back. Nobody wants to hang onto a hospital bed, commode and similar in their living room.
But I was shocked at the difference over just 7 years time. Same Red Cross Office. First time quick and person seemed pretty relaxed. Second time took a long while and person seemed stressed and had too much work. You make cuts to funding to charities and it has an impact.

@MarshaMelrose Yes local authority homes used to cost more to run. They no longer exist where I live. They were way better. They did not pay staff minimum wage resulting in a rota of low paid, inexperienced young staff rotating through the home.
Nicer furniture does not make a good care home and there have been scandals at lots of private care homes including the BUPA ones.

Also agree that people taking responsibility for their own health leads to more care costs. The biggest risk factor for dementia is age. Most people funded by taxpayers in care homes have dementia. More people who live 90 plus, more people funded by taxpayers in care homes.
People who live unhealthy lifestyles are far less likely to need long term care. They die like my Uncle of a massive heart attack. Or like my step brother of cirrhosis.

Of course there are more scandals in private homes, one round us just closed and the manager was charged with manslaughter, but that's because there are so many more of them. We have 6 coincil run in our whole county. Care home wages vary. Its wrong to say that council staff are the best paid. Its also very wrong tobsay that private care homes only employ young staff. The ages are comparable. Council homes are better than some homes and worse than others. I have been round a lot of homes. It's been my life for three months.

When I meant nicer, I wasn't talking about furniture.