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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the NHS is beyond repair?

157 replies

NHSisfallingapart · 12/03/2023 22:04

DS has been unwell with chickenpox. A couple of the blisters looked like they might be infected. It’s a Sunday and the GP is closed, when I rand their after hours line it just goes dead. I rang 111 for advice at noon and have been waiting for a return pcall ever since. Someone rang me a few hours ago to ask whether I stil want to speak with someone. They could not provide an estimate of when I will receive a return call and told me it’s a 24 hour service and I may be called at any hour.

AIBU to think the standard of care provided by the NHS is inadequate? I suspect DS needs antibiotics and I can’t do anything about it.

OP posts:
Emotionalstorm · 13/03/2023 03:02

They should just sell it off and put it out of its misery. I would be interested in buying some shares if it was publicly listed.

CanOfPop · 13/03/2023 03:04

Yes lots of rich people would make a lot of money out of the sale of the NHS.
And healthcare would become like dentistry. Available mainly to the well off.

EnterChasedByAMemory · 13/03/2023 03:08

CanOfPop · 13/03/2023 02:16

The Tories nearly destroyed the NHS last time but did not succeed. It was brought back from life support by Labour. It will be again.

The Tories have been in power for over a decade and who knows if that will continue for another decade? What if it’s too little, too late? Sad

I can’t help but think that so much change in the next 2 years by the time we have another general election. I mean I’m not even sure how many people spoke about Rishi Sunak undoing the work of the Labour Party about how they inherited a bunch of formulas where the funding went to poor deprived urban areas in a leaked footage months ago. And last I checked, he’s still the PM and there hasn’t been this massive outrage for him to step down etc.

There needs to be more accountability and checks and balances in place about how much funding goes into each area so all constituents benefit from government funding whether they are in a rich area or a deprived one. I am not sure how much the Opposition party is holding the Tories to account?

Another thing, are salaries being paid to match inflation? People are striking not just for a pay rise, but for their salaries match inflation. Meanwhile, it was recently reported that MPs did get a pay rise. It’s mind-boggling by the amount of daylight robbery.

EnterChasedByAMemory · 13/03/2023 03:09

EnterChasedByAMemory · 13/03/2023 03:08

The Tories have been in power for over a decade and who knows if that will continue for another decade? What if it’s too little, too late? Sad

I can’t help but think that so much change in the next 2 years by the time we have another general election. I mean I’m not even sure how many people spoke about Rishi Sunak undoing the work of the Labour Party about how they inherited a bunch of formulas where the funding went to poor deprived urban areas in a leaked footage months ago. And last I checked, he’s still the PM and there hasn’t been this massive outrage for him to step down etc.

There needs to be more accountability and checks and balances in place about how much funding goes into each area so all constituents benefit from government funding whether they are in a rich area or a deprived one. I am not sure how much the Opposition party is holding the Tories to account?

Another thing, are salaries being paid to match inflation? People are striking not just for a pay rise, but for their salaries match inflation. Meanwhile, it was recently reported that MPs did get a pay rise. It’s mind-boggling by the amount of daylight robbery.

so much can change*

MarshaMelrose · 13/03/2023 03:20

CanOfPop · 13/03/2023 03:00

2010 NHS was judged the most efficient healthcare system in the world.
An NHS can not by itself make people live healthier lives. Smoking used to be very common. Government laws changed that.

Show me. Because I'm looking at the headline, uk is best performing and it's in 2014, although they might be based on 2013 figures, to be fair.

www.candi.nhs.uk/news/nhs-declared-world%E2%80%99s-best-healthcare-system#:~:text=The%20NHS%20has%20been%20declared,produced%20by%20the%20Commonwealth%20Fund

And if you follow through to the reports you can go back to 2010, where we were 2nd out out of fewer countries. If you go ahead, it reports for 2021. The UK has fallen to 4th, behind Norway, the Netherlands and Australia. But ahead of Germany, NZ, Sweden, France Swizerland, Canada and the US. Not great but hardly dreadful.

EnterChasedByAMemory · 13/03/2023 03:22

XenoBitch · 12/03/2023 22:29

I have called 999 and had an ambulance attend for a panic attack. I didn't know it was one... I literally thought I was going to drop down dead. If I had known what it was, I would have used my coping mechanisms and dealt with it myself.
No one calls an ambulance if they know they are having a panic attack.

@XenoBitch, I have no idea who you are or what your health conditions are but as you are quoting me, I might as well respond.

I was responding to another poster who had mentioned someone calling the ambulance because of a panic attack. So I merely responded on the basis of what I had just read on this thread.

I am glad to hear that you’re fine now. My concerns were more for the lack of funding, possibilities of a privatised healthcare and people needing to have access to mental health services etc. not to mention that ambulances might be more occupied so they won’t be able to respond promptly.

Zebedee55 · 13/03/2023 04:52

The NHS needs root and branch reform as much as it needs extra funds.

Even Labour say it needs to change.

labourlist.org/2023/01/labours-plans-to-reform-the-nhs-continue-to-attract-criticism/

RunTowardsTheLight · 13/03/2023 05:00

The NHS needs to be overhauled - it can't cope with the ageing population. I would support the system in some European countries where some things are charged for.

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 13/03/2023 05:06

I've known things were bad for a while, but this week I saw the NHS falling around around its ears. Buckle up- this is a long post (I apologise):

After four lots of antibiotics in four weeks for a chest infection that hasn't cleared I phoned my GP on Tuesday morning. I originally had covid and it had gone to my chest. My symptoms were tightness and heaviness of chest, fever of 39.4, a terrible cough and blood-flecked mucus. I also had a very painful left ear Was told there were no appointments to be had (after waiting on hold from when they opened at 8am to 9.15) and I should wait until the out of hours service opened at 5pm.

Phoned them at 5, was on hold for 1hr 45mins and when I got through was told there were no OOH appointments and to phone 111.

Phoned 111 at 6.45pm and got through quite quickly, by around 7pm. Was told I would be phoned back by a doctor based on my symptoms within six hours.

At 1am I received a phone call from 111 saying this wasn't my call back, it was to inform me my callback had been delayed but would be within the next six hours.

At 4.30am I received the call from a doctor. He was very concerned based on my symptoms and the fact four lots of antibiotics haven't worked. He sent a referral to my local A&E and told me to go now. Told me he would say in the referral that I need a chest X-ray, blood tests to check for infection markers, a swab and likely IV antibiotics but that I should tell the doctor this too.

Got to my local hospital at 5am. It's a large, London teaching hospital. Absolute war zone. 43 trolleys with ambulance crews sat with the patients (almost all extremely elderly people) in the corridor leading down to A&E.

I waited four hours to see a doctor, who listened to my chest and took my temperature and looked like I was boring her to death. It was all she could do to touch me, I think if she could have got away with not examining me she would have. Explained everything the 111 doc had said and she snapped and said “yes o can read all of that here”. She said there was a wheeze on my left lung but that I had no fever- and said that like I was a fantasist. Her exact words were “you told the 111 doctor that you had a fever but you don’t”. I explained that I’d taken some codeine about an hour prior for the ear pain which had likely taken it down and she literally scoffed. I then asked her to look in my painful ear and she refused saying “you’ve had a chest infection, not an ear infection!”

She then said that as four lots of antibiotics hadn’t worked there was no point giving me anymore. I asked how that worked as I still very clearly had signs of infection. She shrugged and said “you’ll just become antibiotic resistant” and that I should go home and contact my GP in a week if I was no better. I then said- very politely- that that wasn’t good enough and I wanted the tests the other doctor had recommended. She huffed and puffed, went out to talk to someone else for a while and came back in with a form which she wrote my name on and said “fine, you can have a chest x ray” like she was really doing me a favour.

Chest x-ray done around 10am and I went back to wait for the doctor. By this time I’m tripping balls as I feel so ill and have been up all night. I see the doctor again at 11am who says that I have pneumonia that “looks bacterial” on my left lung but it looks like “it’s clearing up” and that he hospital can’t facilitate further tests or IV antibiotics so I should go home and ring my GP for another course. She also says I should ask for a referral to the long covid clinic. I explain that not being able to see my GP 27hrs ago was what landed me here. I also said that clearly, I don’t have long covid, I have pneumonia. She shrugged and said “well you say you’re tired, that’s probably long covid”(!!!) I asked if she could prescribe the antibiotics. She said she couldn’t as “this is A&E”. I was sent off totally flabbergasted but clear that I was getting no further help from her.

I was with my mum and she drove me to the GP where we went in and explained the situation. Luckily we got the one nice receptionist- or she was just so shocked by the story- who said there were no appointments but if we sat and waited I could see someone after morning surgery finished.

At 1.30pm I eventually got a prescription for 21 months days of further antibiotics from one of the GPs. He said it was a terrible story but he “wasn’t surprised”.

I’ve got no doubt that- probably- if your heart packs in or you’re in a bad accident or something similar the NHS would help. It was brilliant when I had my kids and suffered PPHs. It can probably cope with limited crises and react accordingly. But for someone like me with something that won’t imminently kill them but for whom is ill and could end up quite seriously poorly if left alone, they’re now next to useless. I’ve never felt so helpless. I literally did not know who to turn to after being in A&E. I felt like the safety net that I had believed in all my life was well and truly gone.

rwalker · 13/03/2023 05:23

The problem is people are that stupid and thick that they think all it needs is more money

YES YES it does need more funding but we are breaking it by not taking responsibility for out health and creating unnecessary demands on the service

we are one of the fattest unhealthy nations no wonder our health service has unprecedented demand

in our entitled society everything is someone else problem and responsibility

Dyslexicwonder · 13/03/2023 05:47

They should also manufacture their own drugs rather than buying them in from over expensive private companies which would all save billions.

I agree there are huge savings to be had. Manufacturing our own drugs isn't one of them. The NHS with NICE effectively operates a monopoly around procurement, it's the major stumbling block in obtaining a free trade arrangement with the US. Most prescribed drugs are off patent and amazingly cheap.

beezlebubnicky · 13/03/2023 06:01

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 12/03/2023 22:15

The system is definitely broken, but I voted yabu because I don't agree that it is beyond repair. I believe that the problems could be sorted out with sufficient investment and political will to do so. That might mean all of us being willing to pay in a bit more/ change the way we interact with it.

I hope that your ds gets better soon.

YABU, I agree with this.

The only trouble is a lot of people in this country think very short-term politically. Even with proper investment if Labour got in, it would take years to recover and I can see people complaining at a future election about the state of the NHS as it still hasn't yet improved enough, forgetting that it was the Tories that fucked it in the first place. And potentially voting them back in.

Brits are turkeys who vote for Christmas.

iloveeverykindofcat · 13/03/2023 06:14

I found 111 to go above and beyond. A while ago I got bitten by a rat that I was trying to help escape my home before my cat got it. I wasn't worried, but I was so surprised when it screamed, flew into my hands and bit me 3 times that I texted my friend in a 'ha ha you won't believe what just happened' and they immediately told me to call 111 because they carry diseases. So I did, and 111 called me back within 20 minutes and sent me to a clinic 15 minutes away for antibiotics and a tetanus shot. All done and dusted within an hour, couldn't ask for more.

Pastadanca · 13/03/2023 06:21

People keep saying about funding, yes some areas are undoubtedly inefficient, but the demands on the NHS are greater than ever before, and equipment is more expensive than ever. An MRI machine for example is amazing but bloody expensive to buy and run, same with other equipment that's being rolled out. Agency pay takes up a lot of money, but they're only used if desperate.

Until they sort out staffing it'll continue to be below par. 111 for example should be an excellent tool, but as is its pointless! If you could phone it and speak to a clinical fairly quickly, or even better if there were actually appointments they could sign post you to ie out of hours then it'd be great; but there's not the infrastructure behind it to allow that which redness it largely pointless. Had to go to minor injuries the other week, the wait was 6 hours (DS had split his head open)- the nurse said she was the only nurse in and there was 1 doctor and a HCA; madness.

It could be saved but the tories won't.

iloveeverykindofcat · 13/03/2023 06:29

@Pastadanca That's exactly what happened to me though? A doctor phoned me back within twenty minutes, and sent me to an appointment at a minor injuries clinic. I don't know if it was because it was an animal bite and they were worried about disease control or what, but I couldn't have asked for prompter service.

Apricotlemonade · 13/03/2023 06:30

Sorry I don’t understand why the op couldn’t wait until the next day ie Monday for infected chickenpox blisters. What do you think is going to happen between Sunday night and Monday that needs an immediate response.

I agree with a lot of what has been said on hear re the Tories running it into the ground and Labour absolutely being able to rebuild it again however we do need to take some responsibility re expectations.

MarshaBradyo · 13/03/2023 06:36

We’ve had good service with ABs on a Saturday, not sure about Sunday though

A few things going on, massive advances so we live longer with complex needs, even stuff like knee and hip replacements going up (look at the projected stats it’s eye watering). Age related plus social care causes back logs so money needed there. Plus unhealthy population that could improve.

If people want to pay more that’s ok, it’s tax payers after all that fund it.

ladyofshertonabbas · 13/03/2023 06:41

yabu. Why were you ringing, you literally diagnosed the problem in your post. If anything, go and speak to a pharmacist.

MarshaMelrose · 13/03/2023 06:44

If the Tories are running it into the ground why is it rated higher than, France, Germany, Canada, Sweden, etc?

Florissant · 13/03/2023 06:45

Enthrallingstoryofstillnessandlight · 13/03/2023 01:20

Totally agree 👍

Another who agrees.

Pastadanca · 13/03/2023 06:56

iloveeverykindofcat · 13/03/2023 06:29

@Pastadanca That's exactly what happened to me though? A doctor phoned me back within twenty minutes, and sent me to an appointment at a minor injuries clinic. I don't know if it was because it was an animal bite and they were worried about disease control or what, but I couldn't have asked for prompter service.

Goof for you? Do you not believe the many people who have not had that experience? It should always work as you found it, but it absolutely doesn't. This isn't the fault of the call handlers, its because many areas don't have the appointments to give out or the HCPs to call back in a reasonable time frame.

Emotionalstorm · 13/03/2023 07:32

MarshaMelrose · 13/03/2023 06:44

If the Tories are running it into the ground why is it rated higher than, France, Germany, Canada, Sweden, etc?

Because it's not true but Mumsnet is full if left wing communist fans.

Swiftbushome · 13/03/2023 07:32

I find 111 to be fucking useless personally. I once had to call them because my 3 year old was struggling with breathing over night. He had a viral infection and I was thinking maybe it was just that so didn't want to go nuts and rush him straight to A and E in the middle of the night if I was overreacting and he maybe needed to rest. But I was scared so I rang for advice on whether I should take him. I waited ages and eventually got a call back.from a doctor who asked me loads of questions and eventually said to take him to the GP the next morning. I stayed awake watching him all night then took him to the doctor in the morning. Who called a fucking ambulance and stuck him on a nebuliser while we were waiting for it to arrive. He also asked me why I hadn't taken him to A&E last night. When we got to hospital I was asked accusingly by 5 different staff members as to why I hadn't taken him in before since he was in such a bad way. He is fine now (thank god) but it was traumatic. Especially with everyone apparently thinking I was negligent for not bringing him in earlier. BUT IM NOT MEDICAL!! I just don't know this stuff. I realise I have a tendency to panic and I don't trust my judgement so I got advice from a doctor and acted on it. So the PP with the rat bite got good service from 111 which is great but I cam tell you they were worse than useless for us. I would have taken him in if it wasn't for 111 telling me he didn't need to go. And we're so used to having "don't just go to A&E" drummed into us 24/7.

Bovril2000 · 13/03/2023 07:43

It's completely beyond repair and has been for some time. No amount of funding will fix it now - the waste and the way funds are badly managed are crippling it from the inside.

I waited recently 17 hours for a callback from 111 - by the time the call arrived, I was in A&E which is where I should have gone in the first place. I would never use 111 again. If you can afford it, take out health insurance to cover as much as possible. I just wish there were a private A&E - there's definitely a demand for one!

Blossomtoes · 13/03/2023 07:50

Seventytwosunsetstrip · 13/03/2023 02:06

What link?

And why was Blair using Tory spending plans if they were no good?

This one

www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/default/files/summary-high-performing-nhs-progress-review-1997-2010-ruth-thorlby-jo-maybin-kings-fund-april-2010_0.pdf

Blair used Tory spending plans for the first two years because it was in their manifesto in 1997, that’s what they were voted in to do. And, by the way, he never had any inclination to sell off the NHS, he knew it would be electoral suicide - and that man knew how to win elections.

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