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Original poster

Do I have grounds for unfair dismissal???

176 replies

Cocacolachick · 10/03/2023 10:13

Sorry this is going to be so long but I don’t want to miss anything. I’m absolutely livid I’ll try and describe this as best I can.

I work in healthcare, a very small company. My boss and I are the only workers, but she works part time and I’m the only full time worker. Essentially I’m making all the money which is fine but she’s very money driven and not particularly bothered about her employees. I see all the invoices including her getting paid £800 for ME to supervise students (which I get is part of the business, but I shouldn’t be seeing that).

A few months ago, she put me on a “performance review” because on one occasion I accidentally left a sign outside overnight and it got ruined by the rain. A complete mistake on my part, I get, but she very much made a big deal of it. She also set me a target to always do my contractual hours, because I left 5 minutes early once (though I come in 30 minutes early every day, without fail).

I know for sure I’ve met these targets. Yesterday, she called a meeting and said “okay I’m getting straight to the point, this isn’t working out”. Her reasons were not only ridiculous, but she never even discussed these with me prior.

  • She said the thing that made her decide was that “I was off sick on Monday”. And I “let her know too late by email and didn’t even call”. She literally told me before that email was fine. And it was only a little later in the morning because I tried to come in, but still told her before my shift. And I have a doctors note. She’s essentially sacking me for calling in sick.
  • She said it’s not just this though, but other things:
  • She said “you moan that you have too much work on, and no time to do anything, but you really don’t have that much on”. She sees 2-3 clients a day when she’s in. I see 5-6 and have to do notes/report/admin/answering the phone.
  • I don’t always answer the phone. I do this because I’m BUSY. She’s never had a problem, in fact she set up a virtual assistant to “help us” so I “can get on with my admin” yet is now sacking me for it.
  • She told me I need to communicate with her that I’m struggling, so one morning I did call her saying I had struggled to find the time to prepare for a session. She yesterday said it was ridiculous, and that I “can’t be ringing her at all hours for fun” (it was 9:30am).
  • I told her my housemate had covid. She said I need to pay for my own tests if I want to test as I don’t have symptoms. A few days later I came in coughing my guts out. She didn’t ask if I was ok, no concern, nothing. So I had to pay for my own tests even though I work in healthcare. She said it’s “because I didn’t come to her and ask”. She said she didn’t ask if I was ok because “I was running a team meeting at the time, and I’m currently moving house, it wasn’t on my mind”. I told her I had a problem with that and she said “yeah whatever”.
  • She said I’m “not very good at winging my sessions”. Basically telling me I don’t need time to prepare - as long as I’m earning her money I shouldn’t be putting time to prepare or plan good sessions. She said she puts her family first.

So she sacked me there and then. With my 2 months notice, but essentially sacking me for reasons she never even discussed with me. I think she’s just decided she doesn’t like me.

BUT it gets worse. This morning, I go to write a note on the work phone, and there’s a note about all the things I’ve done wrong for me to find. This is SO unprofessional. But also there’s LOADS of things she’s never even brought up with me. Such as

  • “leaving covid tests all over the table” I left one used test on one occasion by accident while I was in a session
  • “Leaving the cabinet keys too close to the cabinet” fine, but she never told me this. And I came in the other day and SHE’D LEFT THEM IN THERE
  • “Requesting she works from home one day while I was away” I literally should not be getting sacked for asking this??? The answer was no and I said okay fine??
  • “Looking scruffy at work” again NEVER mentioned this and I know I do not look scruffy at work ever. Sometimes I don’t wear make up??
  • “Heating at full blast” never told me to turn it down, and the office is freezing???
  • “Not responding to clients emails” one time when I was off sick.
  • “Not replying to my email asking if she was returning to work” she had emailed me at 7pm when I was sick, and I replied early the next morning???

Honestly I feel like she’s sacked me for unbelievable reasons. She just doesn’t like me, and she never even raised these as concerns before sacking me. Yes she’s given me notice but I have 2 months to panic-find a new job. And also, this is NOTHING to do with my clinical work. I know the job I do clinically is really really good.

I’m absolutely livid, I’m crying at work today and I’m struggling to be getting on with work that is just going straight into her paycheck.

OP posts:
Lavender14 · 10/03/2023 18:01

Are you in a union op? If not join one ASAP. It does sound like unfair dismissal and bullying. A union rep would follow it up for you.

NicLondon1 · 10/03/2023 18:16

I have in the past been mistreated and let go in totally unfair circumstances…I went quietly and then regretted for years not making a big fuss! So if there is any HR or anyone you could complain to, I would, horrible bosses need to be called out.

MrsPinkCock · 10/03/2023 18:24

Mortimercat · 10/03/2023 16:27

It is notice of termination of employment. The notice applies on both sides.

If a company is firing someone for gross misconduct, then of course they will not expect notice to be worked, but that is not what is happening here. The Op is merely being given her notice and if the employer wants her to work it then she is contractually obliged to work whatever her contract states.

Show quote history

The OP specifically said

My contract says the employer may terminate my employment at any time on giving me two months notice.

She didn’t say the notice contained in the contract was mutual, or that there was a reciprocal clause stipulating how much notice she is required to give. Only statutory notice is implied - if an employer wants an employee to be bound by a longer notice period then it must be expressly set out in the contract.

letthemalldoone · 10/03/2023 18:34

Hoppinggreen · 10/03/2023 15:15

Virtually the first thing that link says is IF you have been at an employer 2 years, OP hasn’t.
There is no point in wasting time in gathering anything
Shes horrible OP and I don’t know how you are going to cope with working for her for 2 months but if it’s in your contract I don’t know what else you can do

Show quote history

If you'd bothered to read further down, it actually says there are circumstances that don't necessitate the 2 years' service. I know where I work, you can't just sack someone - even while on probation - you have to go through a process of pointing out the issues, putting them in writing, providing support/training to address, set review points/targets, then if they don't improve, you write to them formally and invite them to a meeting and set out why their contract is being terminated AND they have to have the right of appeal.

Hoppinggreen · 10/03/2023 18:43

letthemalldoone · 10/03/2023 18:34

If you'd bothered to read further down, it actually says there are circumstances that don't necessitate the 2 years' service. I know where I work, you can't just sack someone - even while on probation - you have to go through a process of pointing out the issues, putting them in writing, providing support/training to address, set review points/targets, then if they don't improve, you write to them formally and invite them to a meeting and set out why their contract is being terminated AND they have to have the right of appeal.

Show quote history

I read it, and where you work they may not just sack people but they legally can.
The exceptions are largely due to discrimination of some type and unless OP has missed out some vital information there hasn’t been any

MrsPinkCock · 10/03/2023 18:50

letthemalldoone · 10/03/2023 18:34

If you'd bothered to read further down, it actually says there are circumstances that don't necessitate the 2 years' service. I know where I work, you can't just sack someone - even while on probation - you have to go through a process of pointing out the issues, putting them in writing, providing support/training to address, set review points/targets, then if they don't improve, you write to them formally and invite them to a meeting and set out why their contract is being terminated AND they have to have the right of appeal.

Show quote history

But sadly, that’s a contractual right and not a statutory one. And even if it was breached, the employee wouldn’t have any legal redress, apart from mainly claiming earnings for the time it would have taken to follow a fair process (wrongful dismissal/breach of contract rather than unfair dismissal).

Something else we can thank the Tory government for - raising the qualifying service requirement from one year to two years. Because business is more important than a persons livelihood, apparently.

WhoWants2Know · 10/03/2023 18:59

The difficulty with keeping a person on for a notice period after sacking them is that they have the opportunity to poison the well. Often that can happen just by sharing accurate, non-confidential information in a completely professional way.

If the clients you see and the students you supervise have built a positive relationship with you, they may be unhappy to see you go.

letthemalldoone · 10/03/2023 18:59

Hoppinggreen · 10/03/2023 18:43

I read it, and where you work they may not just sack people but they legally can.
The exceptions are largely due to discrimination of some type and unless OP has missed out some vital information there hasn’t been any

Show quote history

All I know is what I read and where I work the qualifying period is a year (not that it's relevant to the OP). The ACAS document refers to circumstances where the 2 year limit may not apply, and lists them. I'm a qualified HR professional but I have to say, I don't know whether there is any form of redress - which is why I followed my post with the contact details for ACAS.

It's just making me wonder why my organisation (c 50,000 staff spread geographically) is so anal about getting the '3 step' process right, if there's no come back?

I guess maybe where I work is more tightly regulated and there are other bodies who would pursue a complaint?

letthemalldoone · 10/03/2023 19:01

Even if it was just for payment of salary for the period of time a fair process would have taken, it might be better than nothing?

iklboo · 10/03/2023 19:09

Given the way you've gone about sacking me I'm surprised you'd trust me to work here for another two months Tinkly laugh, long stare"

Don't do this. Apart from making you look deranged it could be taken as a veiled threat.

Are you in a union op? If not join one ASAP. It does sound like unfair dismissal and bullying. A union rep would follow it up for you.

Unfortunately not. They often don't take on retrospective cases and as OP has been employed less than two years the unfair dismissal would likely not stand.

GoodChat · 10/03/2023 19:36

My work is the same as yours @letthemalldoone - but that's just because their reputation requires a stringent and fair process.

Bigmirrorssmallrooms · 10/03/2023 20:17

letthemalldoone · 10/03/2023 18:59

All I know is what I read and where I work the qualifying period is a year (not that it's relevant to the OP). The ACAS document refers to circumstances where the 2 year limit may not apply, and lists them. I'm a qualified HR professional but I have to say, I don't know whether there is any form of redress - which is why I followed my post with the contact details for ACAS.

It's just making me wonder why my organisation (c 50,000 staff spread geographically) is so anal about getting the '3 step' process right, if there's no come back?

I guess maybe where I work is more tightly regulated and there are other bodies who would pursue a complaint?

Show quote history

Maybe you missed the fact she was on a pip?

Original poster
Cocacolachick · 11/03/2023 01:09

Thank you so much everyone for your comments xx

OP posts:
letthemalldoone · 11/03/2023 01:31

GoodChat · 10/03/2023 19:36

My work is the same as yours @letthemalldoone - but that's just because their reputation requires a stringent and fair process.

Yeah, I know, just a shame that it doesn't apply universally... as it should!

letthemalldoone · 11/03/2023 01:34

Bigmirrorssmallrooms · 10/03/2023 20:17

Maybe you missed the fact she was on a pip?

Show quote history

No, I didn't miss that at all. Fact remains that a PIP plan involves setting out clear targets and objectives, monitoring them, providing training/feedback/support to achieve the objectives, clear outcome if these fail to be met, and an appeal process at the end of it all.

Maybe you missed the notion that employees should be treated fairly.

Bigmirrorssmallrooms · 11/03/2023 06:40

letthemalldoone · 11/03/2023 01:34

No, I didn't miss that at all. Fact remains that a PIP plan involves setting out clear targets and objectives, monitoring them, providing training/feedback/support to achieve the objectives, clear outcome if these fail to be met, and an appeal process at the end of it all.

Maybe you missed the notion that employees should be treated fairly.

Show quote history

Are you for real? Are you actually on here acting like we don’t know what a pip is? And pretending you’ve insight into what the ops involved 😂

GoodChat · 11/03/2023 08:14

@letthemalldoone I don't agree that it's a shame, actually. Some people just aren't right for the job and it's really hard to get rid.

Barannca · 11/03/2023 13:21

Good luck in your job hunt. It sounds as though you are in a service type job so I hope your clients decide to move with you.
In your last appointment with them could you tell them you are leaving and ask them if they would like you to let them know when you find another placement in case they want to follow you. if so ask for their contact details That way you are not breaking any data sharing rules.

ThinWomansBrain · 11/03/2023 14:26

I know difficult to process and demoralising - but she sounds a complete cow - lucky escape.
Good luck with finding a new role - try not to be too negative in interviews.
Don't worry too much about your reference - most references these days are merely to confirm your role/job title and dates of employment.

Tinysoxxx · 11/03/2023 17:17

I expect the friend she messaged about you is the one that will get your job. It won’t end well for either of them.

Atsocta · 11/03/2023 17:56

Depends completely how long you’ve worked there
and even then it’s quite a battle ..

SueVineer · 11/03/2023 18:26

letthemalldoone · 10/03/2023 18:34

If you'd bothered to read further down, it actually says there are circumstances that don't necessitate the 2 years' service. I know where I work, you can't just sack someone - even while on probation - you have to go through a process of pointing out the issues, putting them in writing, providing support/training to address, set review points/targets, then if they don't improve, you write to them formally and invite them to a meeting and set out why their contract is being terminated AND they have to have the right of appeal.

Show quote history

The circumstances are things like discrimination which we don’t have here

letthemalldoone · 11/03/2023 18:29

Bigmirrorssmallrooms · 11/03/2023 06:40

Are you for real? Are you actually on here acting like we don’t know what a pip is? And pretending you’ve insight into what the ops involved 😂

Show quote history

Are you always this rude? Do one.

letthemalldoone · 11/03/2023 18:31

GoodChat · 11/03/2023 08:14

@letthemalldoone I don't agree that it's a shame, actually. Some people just aren't right for the job and it's really hard to get rid.

Yes I know, despite know-it-all above I've dealt with this in actual RL. Doesn't mean employers should get away without doing it properly.

PegasusReturns · 13/03/2023 09:29

@letthemalldoone

Yes I know, despite know-it-all above I've dealt with this in actual RL. Doesn't mean employers should get away without doing it properly

you’re embarrassing yourself - you can’t possibly really be an HR professional Shock

employers shouldn’t get away with doing things unlawfully. Fortunately the law is pretty clear on employment rights and termination and your definition of “properly” is irrelevant.