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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do I have grounds for unfair dismissal???

176 replies

Cocacolachick · 10/03/2023 10:13

Sorry this is going to be so long but I don’t want to miss anything. I’m absolutely livid I’ll try and describe this as best I can.

I work in healthcare, a very small company. My boss and I are the only workers, but she works part time and I’m the only full time worker. Essentially I’m making all the money which is fine but she’s very money driven and not particularly bothered about her employees. I see all the invoices including her getting paid £800 for ME to supervise students (which I get is part of the business, but I shouldn’t be seeing that).

A few months ago, she put me on a “performance review” because on one occasion I accidentally left a sign outside overnight and it got ruined by the rain. A complete mistake on my part, I get, but she very much made a big deal of it. She also set me a target to always do my contractual hours, because I left 5 minutes early once (though I come in 30 minutes early every day, without fail).

I know for sure I’ve met these targets. Yesterday, she called a meeting and said “okay I’m getting straight to the point, this isn’t working out”. Her reasons were not only ridiculous, but she never even discussed these with me prior.

  • She said the thing that made her decide was that “I was off sick on Monday”. And I “let her know too late by email and didn’t even call”. She literally told me before that email was fine. And it was only a little later in the morning because I tried to come in, but still told her before my shift. And I have a doctors note. She’s essentially sacking me for calling in sick.
  • She said it’s not just this though, but other things:
  • She said “you moan that you have too much work on, and no time to do anything, but you really don’t have that much on”. She sees 2-3 clients a day when she’s in. I see 5-6 and have to do notes/report/admin/answering the phone.
  • I don’t always answer the phone. I do this because I’m BUSY. She’s never had a problem, in fact she set up a virtual assistant to “help us” so I “can get on with my admin” yet is now sacking me for it.
  • She told me I need to communicate with her that I’m struggling, so one morning I did call her saying I had struggled to find the time to prepare for a session. She yesterday said it was ridiculous, and that I “can’t be ringing her at all hours for fun” (it was 9:30am).
  • I told her my housemate had covid. She said I need to pay for my own tests if I want to test as I don’t have symptoms. A few days later I came in coughing my guts out. She didn’t ask if I was ok, no concern, nothing. So I had to pay for my own tests even though I work in healthcare. She said it’s “because I didn’t come to her and ask”. She said she didn’t ask if I was ok because “I was running a team meeting at the time, and I’m currently moving house, it wasn’t on my mind”. I told her I had a problem with that and she said “yeah whatever”.
  • She said I’m “not very good at winging my sessions”. Basically telling me I don’t need time to prepare - as long as I’m earning her money I shouldn’t be putting time to prepare or plan good sessions. She said she puts her family first.

So she sacked me there and then. With my 2 months notice, but essentially sacking me for reasons she never even discussed with me. I think she’s just decided she doesn’t like me.

BUT it gets worse. This morning, I go to write a note on the work phone, and there’s a note about all the things I’ve done wrong for me to find. This is SO unprofessional. But also there’s LOADS of things she’s never even brought up with me. Such as

  • “leaving covid tests all over the table” I left one used test on one occasion by accident while I was in a session
  • “Leaving the cabinet keys too close to the cabinet” fine, but she never told me this. And I came in the other day and SHE’D LEFT THEM IN THERE
  • “Requesting she works from home one day while I was away” I literally should not be getting sacked for asking this??? The answer was no and I said okay fine??
  • “Looking scruffy at work” again NEVER mentioned this and I know I do not look scruffy at work ever. Sometimes I don’t wear make up??
  • “Heating at full blast” never told me to turn it down, and the office is freezing???
  • “Not responding to clients emails” one time when I was off sick.
  • “Not replying to my email asking if she was returning to work” she had emailed me at 7pm when I was sick, and I replied early the next morning???

Honestly I feel like she’s sacked me for unbelievable reasons. She just doesn’t like me, and she never even raised these as concerns before sacking me. Yes she’s given me notice but I have 2 months to panic-find a new job. And also, this is NOTHING to do with my clinical work. I know the job I do clinically is really really good.

I’m absolutely livid, I’m crying at work today and I’m struggling to be getting on with work that is just going straight into her paycheck.

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 10/03/2023 13:05

GoodChat · 10/03/2023 12:14

She can't sack you and make you keep working.

Why would you want a reference from her?

Yes she can, it’s called working your contracted notice

SueVineer · 10/03/2023 13:06

JustCheck · 10/03/2023 12:57

This whole set up is not legal. Notice is what YOU give. You do not give notice of sacking and then expect the person to work it

Not at all true there are periods of notice for both employers and employees. If you refuse to work your notice there is not much she can do but you won’t be paid

Hoppinggreen · 10/03/2023 13:06

FirstnameSuesecondnamePerb · 10/03/2023 11:01

You sound better off out of it tbh. My ddad always said never work for a small business, the will view every penny they pay you as a penny out of their pocket.
Probably planning on replacing you with a friend or relative.
Do the minimum you can and the maximum to get another job. As soon as you gey one, resign.
You are better off out of it.

Your Dad was wrong, sorry

honeylulu · 10/03/2023 13:07

She sounds appalling but I wonder what is really going on. It sounds like you deal with most of the work and bring in most of the money so either (a) she's got someone else lined up - maybe she's promised your job to a friend of hers hence the strategic sacking of you or (b) she was petulant as she doesn't seem to like you but hasn't really thought through that there won't be anyone to do the work once you leave. If it's the latter you might find she backtracks and asks you to stay, or stay longer (this happened to my son) though you'd be more than entitled to refuse and if be tempted to add some rather unprofessional language to my response (though ideally you shouldn't).

GoodChat · 10/03/2023 13:07

@Hoppinggreen you're right.

Sorry OP, please ignore my first post.

Cocacolachick · 10/03/2023 13:10

My contract says the employer may terminate my employment at any time on giving me two months notice.
However it also mentions the possibility of gardening leave
“If your employer has given notice, your employer may require you not to attend your place of work. During this period you will continue to be entitled to salary or contractual benefits and not work for any other person”

is it reasonable for me to ask for this? Because I feel SO uncomfortable being here. Or could she just sack me on the spot if I even ask??

OP posts:
Badger1970 · 10/03/2023 13:11

Please don't get signed off sick Angry that is NEVER the answer.

Phone ACAS or an employment solicitor - you've had some terribly misleading advice on this thread.

GoodChat · 10/03/2023 13:12

You can ask, or for payment in lieu of notice.

Whatever happens, remember you're also entitled to pay for any holiday you have accrued or will accrue before the end of your notice period.

honeylulu · 10/03/2023 13:15

She can't sack you in the spot without paying you for your notice period (unless you've committed gross misconduct). So you can ask for garden leave but I doubt she will agree as she needs the work done.

Hawkins003 · 10/03/2023 13:16

@Cocacolachick
If your the main bread winner, how exactly is she going to replace you

Dozycuntlaters · 10/03/2023 13:16

You sound better off out of it tbh. My ddad always said never work for a small business, the will view every penny they pay you as a penny out of their pocket

I really don't agree with this. I work for a tiny company (only three of us) and it's been great. Usually you matter more in a small company and are not just a faceless number. But I guess it depends on the boss and the company but I have progressed far better here than I ever did at the large companies I have worked at.

I8toys · 10/03/2023 13:17

Can you take time off to attend interviews?

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 10/03/2023 13:18

Do you need a reference from her? Apart from justifying the year dates you were employed there I mean. If not no way would I stay and work the notice!

ppure · 10/03/2023 13:19

Its irrelevant that she gets more money than you, that's how a business works. The person in charge/owner generally gets paid more money.
They also incur more expenses and often do a lot more work than you think behind the scenes.

You would need to set up your own company and if you did - I'm sure you would want to pay yourself more than your staff!

It is typical procedure to receive verbal/written warnings or notices prior to dismissal. (in a formal sense - not a sticky note on a phone) After which you should be formally dismissed - not asked to continue to work.
If she is going to hone in on ONE factor - like leaving covid tests out or keys, which could be considered serious or dangerous then she would not need to give warnings, but again you should be dismissed on the spot, not asked to work.
It can still be an unfair dismissal I if you haven't worked there for 2 years IF she hasn't followed the correct procedure. I have never heard of a dismissal followed by an 8 week "notice" from her. It seems like she could have intent to hire a new person, then have you train them?
If you are paid monthly, I would suggest working until the end of the month to ensure you get what's due..then leave. If you leave now, you risk not getting paid.

Viviennemary · 10/03/2023 13:34

She sounds absolutely horrible. Good luck to her finding somebody that will put up with her. If you have only been been there a year I don't think there is much you can do.

Cocacolachick · 10/03/2023 13:34

I’m honestly just so lost and angry and upset all at the same time. The note she wrote about me was on the work phone for everyone to find (oh yeah we have an assistant who comes in once a week too) and it’s just humiliating to read

OP posts:
NotDavidTennant · 10/03/2023 13:35

An employer can absolutely require you to work out your notice period if they choose. Most employers usually don't bother with this as they want rid of the sacked employee ASAP but that doesn't mean an employer can't insist on it if they want.

travailtotravel · 10/03/2023 13:39

ACAS for advice

Make sure you have in writing that she has sacked you and agreed to pay notice.

Do the bare minimum - you could be super devious and make it unbearable for her by copying her in or asking her advice about policy or procedure etc etc. This should halve you actually achieveing anything as you wait for response, but she can't sack you any more, can she? And you obviously feel you must be responsible and ask for advice if you can't be trusted enough to actually work there and have been sacked. Bit of devious compliance that's not harmful but will make you feel better!

Get another job ASAP - you should find one easily if you're able to update your CV and need to be out on "site visits".

Honestly, she sounds dreadful and your life will fully improve when you go. Get another job and then jump ship and leave her with the whole thing to fall down around her.

GnomeDePlume · 10/03/2023 13:39
Flowers

I know it feels horrible at the moment but focus on how much better you will feel once you are out from under her. Day by day over the coming weeks the weight of her is going to lift. Focus on that.

It does sound like she thinks she has someone lined up for your job. She has done this to justify her behaviour to herself. Of course, that new person may not even work out in which case she is going to be in a pickle.

Give yourself the weekend then start brushing up your CV.

Some years ago I was made redundant because I refused to move to an office which would involve a 2 hour commute rather than the 15 minute one I had. My boss was furious that I wouldn't do as he wanted. Then he was even more furious when my redundancy was charged to his department. Large company, generous redundancy package and I had been there over 20 years!

I did have to work the whole of my notice period. I think my boss assumed that at some point I would say 'Oh, alright then'. Idiot.

pattihews · 10/03/2023 13:40

Steal her business from her. From what you've said you've done all the donkey work and you know the clients and the businesses for whom you are doing training. She's treated you badly — so take her business. It happens all the time. I've had hairdressers and building professionals who feel they're being exploited by their employers set out on their own and thrive.

Do it. It's the only way crap employers learn.

GyozaGuiting · 10/03/2023 13:40

Sorry Op but bosses can get rid of people for whatever reason they wish, broadly (I won't go into discrimination which this isn't). Sounds like you'll have a lucky escape anyway.

Hankunamatata · 10/03/2023 13:44

You worked for a year as an employee your entitled to ssp if off more than 4 days

Starflecked · 10/03/2023 13:47

It sounds like you're better off out of it to be honest. It's nasty and unprofessional of her to list things in the manner she has, but you wouldn't get anywhere pursuing a claim. I'd just work the notice but also leave work for any interviews you get, I'm sure you'll be snapped up assuming you're a HCP or carer? There are a ludicrous amount of jobs in that sector here, could even go agency whilst you find something more permanent.

JudgeRudy · 10/03/2023 13:47

I'm pretty sure if she's sacked you she can't ask you to work 2 month's notice. Check your contract.
You might feel these things are unfair but if you've been there less than 2 years she can basically say you're unsuitable. In fairness some of the points are valid...leaving early, security issues with keys, damaging goods through carelessness, H&S breach (covid test). I'd also expect if you are teaching/mentoring by a year you wouldn't need much time to prepare as you're just re churning the same script/slides/workbook.

If you're a nurse or carer you won't be out of work long. Ever considered self employment?

Hoppinggreen · 10/03/2023 13:52

Cocacolachick · 10/03/2023 13:10

My contract says the employer may terminate my employment at any time on giving me two months notice.
However it also mentions the possibility of gardening leave
“If your employer has given notice, your employer may require you not to attend your place of work. During this period you will continue to be entitled to salary or contractual benefits and not work for any other person”

is it reasonable for me to ask for this? Because I feel SO uncomfortable being here. Or could she just sack me on the spot if I even ask??

If your contract says that then she HAS to pay you for 2 months even if she asks you not to actually work during that time. You MUST make clear that you are willing to work your notice so if she refuses to pay you you can take action if you want to.
Of course you could negotiate a shorter notice period but that would have to be by mutual consent