Why nobody wants to be a nurse.

[Fifi0000]

I just wanted to raise awareness of why we are struggling to train nurses. I'm a third year student and just completed a 8 week placement where I had to drive 1.5 hours each way driving on top of 12.5 hour shifts. I have a disability which long driving has a detrimental impact on my health. I also have caring responsibilities and limited financial support so we effectively pay to train. You also have to do assignments and exams on top.

I got a choice of defer the placement so lose hours (not get my pin on time) or get on with it. I enquired about funding for a hotel which was ignored. Non drivers are regularly being sent 2 hours each way on top of 12.5 hour placements which makes them drop out. When I enquired with this to the university they said nursing requires resilience. Many nursing roles allow you to go part time and I have found a job very close to my house which wouldn't require the insane commuting times. Just after I finished a 8 week placement , I received a snotty email on Sunday night saying an admin mistake made by my assessor could result in me having to redo all the competencies, I have already achieved so years of hard work. At the moment I wanted to scream and say fuck it.

The whole system needs reworking , nurse training is a punitive unrewarding experience and I can understand why so many don't want to go through it. I am already doubting whether I want to do it because I feel beaten down by the training already.

I'm so sorry to read this. My mother has been a nurse for 40 years but in her day (and country) you just went to nursing school and learned on the job while being paid. She's now head of nursing, so it can't have been that bad, her training. All of this seems unnecessarily stressful comparatively.

Please don't give up now, you are so close to the end. Having a placement so far away from home is difficult, but sometimes there's just no choice – my son is doing nursing in a large city and even he has had some very lengthy commutes for placement because of the number of students (there are several nursing courses just in his city) and the impossibility of finding placements close to home for everyone. Hopefully not all of your placements have required so much travel. Have you spoken to your academic advisor about trying to get a closer placement for the next time? Also presumably if you are doing 12 hour shifts you only have to do that three times a week or so and can use the remaining days to recover. I can't comment on the assessor's mistake about signing off your competencies, getting an email on a Sunday night about it wasn't helpful but hopefully it is an admin matter that can be sorted out. Also, surely you have a different assessor for each placement, so it's only the competencies from one placement which are in question, not All of your placements?

I'm currently a HCA with plans to train as a nurse, but I'm seriously having second thoughts. I find a single 12.5 hour shift on its own exhausting, I don't think I could do 3 or 4 in a row. Plus travel time, like you say. It's ridiculous. It's only in healthcare that these conditions are expected of students. You have my sympathy. You're nearly at the finishing line, you can do it! Can the assessor that cocked everything up just sign you off, without you having to demonstrate the competencies again?

Student placements tend to be like this. Once you qualify you can apply for jobs near to you. Good luck!

I’m sorry. I have no idea why they treat student nurses so bad, but it’s not on.
what admin error is she talking about? And why is it your problem? I would get very angry.
You’re nearly there. Remember how you were treated and treat your students better.

If you’re ever again in this position, having to commute for 3 h, ask for an on call bed and do 3 days in a row, sleep in the on call room for 2, drive home on the 3rd.

I’m sorry OP. It’s the same reason I left teaching - incompetence from those in charge and disrespect from those you care for.

People at the top of hospitals and the top of schools keep saying they’re underfunded (they are) but I do wonder how much more money it would take for them to be competent at their jobs. There seems to be a stellar lack of awareness from management as to how much they contribute to staffing problems by making the conditions unbearable with a complete lack of common sense, consideration and competence.

At training stage, they put the blame onto the universities (who are also truly useless) but when you’re actually working directly with a hospital/school, there’s no one for them to scapegoat. I had this exact discussion with SIL (she’s a registrar) this weekend. You’re right OP, it needs to change but it won’t until the Defenders of the NHS recognise that funding is not the only problem.

It is ridiculous, my sister was a carer for 15 years before doing her access course and getting onto an adult nursing degree. She was really excited to start but the ridiculousness of placements and the attitude of suck it up it will be hard work when you qualify nearly broke her. She did struggle through despite much literal blood, sweat and tears and finds it better now she has qualified but only because she's managed to find a role outside of bedside and the NHS that treats her like an adult with decent hours and conditions!

I'd esculate the uni saying they've lost x and you'll have to redo them, and you can still access occ health as a student who can say you can't drive far. That said you shouldn't have to spend time and energy doing that, everything from applying, funding and the actual degree is messed up and explains the drop out rate even from passionate and committed students.

Easier said than done but I would say push on, tonnes of opportunities once you apply and you're close.

I’m a third year StN so I’m a similar boat to you. My uni is really good in that they separate theory and placement so I don’t have to worry about assignments whilst in practice but, Jesus Christ, the fucking travelling. I was told in first year that you won’t ever be placed in the trust closest to you as ‘some people live further away so it’s only fair that everyone travels’. I’m on a community pathway so I mainly do community placements with one hospital placement per year. I had to pass 5 hospitals to get to the one I was allocated. Community placements tend to be 5 days a week for 7.5 hours a day with an average of 4 hours daily commute not factoring in the frequent public transport strikes. To use your own car you have to get permission or you won’t be able to claim mileage which is a shitty 28p per mile whilst qualified nurses can claim 45p p/m.

I have no idea why they seem to purposefully make it so difficult. On the other hand, we have made it this far. Everyone keeps saying that it’s nearly done, we’re about to qualify, but there’s still so much to do lol. August seems like years off.

Do speak to your PT, cohort/programme lead, academic assessor etc about the admin error. There will be ways around it and they love a pushy student. It shows off your advocacy skills.

I don't have any experience of nursing, but one thing I can relate to is the "treat them mean" mentality.

You can't just want to do a good job, earn your keep, and follow your vocation. Noooo, it has to be blood, sweat and tears.

My workplace was transformed by business guidance that said the exact opposite: put everyone in their comfort zone to the greatest possible extent, then watch them flourish.

I always wanted to be a Nurse (A childhood dream) However It wasnt to be and I worked for a bank instead! However The way you guys are treated makes me glad I wasnt TBH! Surely some leeway on your hours? I thought employers like NHS were supposed to make allowances.Also query this "Admin Error" Its not your fault ,and you shouldnt suffer for it.

That was a good way to train however nursing has changed immensely. Nurses are often doing jobs which would have originally been done by doctors and they need the academic knowledge to underpin those skills.

gosh I never realised they sent you on 12.5 hr shifts!!! i was an AHP so well used to doing the working week when we were on placement ( we were put in hospital accommodation when we were sent away from our uni city) but this was standard days so 8.30-4.30 or thereabouts. it was always stressed to us that when we were on placement we weren't there to be classed as part of the ward/unit staffing precisely because you have a lot of studying /uni work to do on top of the actual placement. i m obviously very out of touch as trained in the 90's (& probably most nurses homes/staff accommodation have been sold off!!) is there no rules about distance from placement or is the expectation that you would stay in provided accommodation at the placement ( which obviously doesnt work for mature students who have families)?

Similar issues in doctor training are sending so many to Australia.............

40 years of nursing, the long shifts, the lack of sleep between shifts, the never ending professional development once qualified…etc etc has I think contributed to my poor health now. All the years of missing out of things with my kids, the Christmas’s I’ve worked, the school plays I’ve missed, the times I’ve been to tired to enjoy family time… never ending… I think ‘was it worth it’ ..there were good times and good friends made but nursing is something I wouldn’t recommended to anyone I know now. Sad really

I think if people go into nursing to be a perpetual fulltime band 5 then it's 100% not worth it. Its not worth doing as a fulltime career as its soul destroying. I truely think it should be as part of a 'portfolio' career - i know im very millenial in that thinking lol. I also think part of the problem is going into it too old in life and not having developed the resilience thats required to suceed in the field. I've been a qualified nurse since I was 20 years old. I spent my 20s moving jobs for opportunities frequently (with long commutes, long shifts, plenty nights and working in another country at one point) and doing 2 post grads. I'm now a 31 year old nurse who earns 52k per year for only 24hours work per week (no nights). I never do bank/overtime. I'm now reaping the rewards (my life is exceptionally easy) but I worked really hard to get here . Opportunities are there but they don't fall in your lap. We all have to go through the struggle, if your life isn't set up for it and you struggle as a 3rd year student (this is the easiest point) then it's probably not the job for you. The hardest challenges for me came post registration as even before qualifying it was always my aim to climb the ladder as quickly as possible (and develop as many financially useful skills as i could). Sorry if its harsh, thats my opinion based on experience. I love being a nurse but I will never do it fulltime/ would never go back to the wards. I'm one of the few I qualified with who is still a nurse and doesn't hate it.

Hello from fellow student nurse. Second year here, currently out on placement and gating every second. Remind me again why the fuck we are doing this?!?

This also is a problem with speech and language therapy - presume all AHPs? Regular placement commutes of 2.5 hours each way.

Well no I find the actual job quite easy and I get irritated by the slowness of the last placement. I've had really good feedback so far I think the HCA experience helped . I'm also not in the adult field , I fully plan on working private as soon as I qualify many nurses I've spoken to say being a student is the worst part of the process. I've managed to find a position that's 39k newly qualified private 10 minutes from my house so not bad. I might never go to registered manager as I prefer clinical and it suits my condition to be clinical.

I have been a nurse for 10 years and this is the point where I’m thinking ‘I want out’. It’s so hard work, staffing is terrible and the pay is nowhere near where it should be for the amount of responsibility involved. I’m thinking of leaving but then I remember how hard I worked as a student and I don’t want that hard work to go to waste.

I would advise you to continue since you have got this far. It definitely improves once you are qualified cos at least you are making money but if I could go back I wouldn’t have picked nursing.

I'm not a manager. I'm clinical.
Just my experience but being a student is by far the easiest part. I was 17 in my first year and was learning to drive. My 1st placement I had to get an hour train then 40min walk to my placement. I think it made me resilient. Just my experience. Yeah they are annoying but it's for such a short time so in the scheme of things it's really not a problem.

I considered nursing as a career and also as a career change at two separate stages in my life. I have 3 friends in nursing, all band 7’s now as the years have processed and all very strong personalities. The one overriding thing that stopped me going for it was the bullying culture. It’s rife and systemic and I truly believe that it not only keeps those who are suited to the profession from even considering it but it also drives many a good nurse out of the profession. It isn’t dealt with properly and ultimately, the traits many have that would lend them to being good at nursing are the very traits that make them unable to cope with the bullying that goes on.

I've been a paediatric nurse for 19 years. It's still the best job in the world. I'm a bit puzzled as to how your placements are so far away though. That is a bit strange. We haven't got issues recruiting students. But we are having issues with the huge amount of support students are now needing. Many of them have anxiety issues etc and no resilience whatsoever. Which really isn't helpful when you are on the ward.

No one in my hospital works more than two in a row.

@Needsomeadvice33 I disagree, it is 100% worth it

Yeah it’s shite and needs a massive overhaul. Student nurses should be paid AT LEAST minimum wage whilst on placement for a start. I really resented doing a 13 hour shift for fuck all. And the overall course needs revamping. They’re working on something called pebbledash now

And placement commutes need to be sensible. Less than one hour away. Do you get paid travel expenses now?

ill be leaving the profession as soon as I’m able to. I hate it with a passion.