Why nobody wants to be a nurse.

[Fifi0000]

I just wanted to raise awareness of why we are struggling to train nurses. I'm a third year student and just completed a 8 week placement where I had to drive 1.5 hours each way driving on top of 12.5 hour shifts. I have a disability which long driving has a detrimental impact on my health. I also have caring responsibilities and limited financial support so we effectively pay to train. You also have to do assignments and exams on top.

I got a choice of defer the placement so lose hours (not get my pin on time) or get on with it. I enquired about funding for a hotel which was ignored. Non drivers are regularly being sent 2 hours each way on top of 12.5 hour placements which makes them drop out. When I enquired with this to the university they said nursing requires resilience. Many nursing roles allow you to go part time and I have found a job very close to my house which wouldn't require the insane commuting times. Just after I finished a 8 week placement , I received a snotty email on Sunday night saying an admin mistake made by my assessor could result in me having to redo all the competencies, I have already achieved so years of hard work. At the moment I wanted to scream and say fuck it.

The whole system needs reworking , nurse training is a punitive unrewarding experience and I can understand why so many don't want to go through it. I am already doubting whether I want to do it because I feel beaten down by the training already.

I hear you! My DC is going Uni for a similar course.

On open / applicant dat they show you a map of 1/3 of England and say your placements will be limited to this area. Ridiculous! They also say that you can apply for a placement grant through uni... but to qualify you need to jump through hoops and be on the bread line, (that includes parents & grandparents).
And then there is the cost / debt for the privilege of doing the course in the first place.

@Toddlerteaplease I'm glad you think so. Most of the nurses I know that stayed as fulltime band 5s either left nursing or have ended up on longterm sick (some of them repeatedly) . Like I say nursing for me is a 'supplementary' career, I would never make it my only income. For me, its enjoyable partime in a promoted post but was soul destroying as a fulltime staff nurse. My nursing work now I pretty much view as a hobby.

My DD 's placements involved either long drives or stay's in BB, the NHS paid quite good mileage rates and accommodation costs.

This was only 2 or 3 years ago.

When she stayed with a family friend nr Taunton, 90 drive away, he charged £300 for 8 weeks accommodation (4 nights a week) and NHS paid that too.

PIA form that would get sent back, if there were errors but your Uni tutor should help you or a year above student.

So i don't get why you aren't getting your money back for costs incurred.

I’ve been a nurse for nearly 40 years, very specialised and have been very senior. I left for a brief break. Enquired about bank work in my specialised field at local trust which currently has over a 100 vacancies (not all nursing) , was told by the bank admin person that I had to join the general nurse bank, could be sent anywhere ( I’m deskilled in a lot of areas due to specialising ) I said this plus I didn’t want to work 12.5 hour shifts, was told that this was standard ! They were quite abrupt, no discussion.
Have enquired to a couple of private places but all so badly organised I can’t envisage working there.
I get quite aggrieved when I hear the govt complaining about the over 55s. I’m quite happy to work at B5 despite being well qualifier and experienced but I won’t work 12.5 hours anymore.
I feel so sorry for student nurses when I hear about their working/training conditions. When I trained we had accommodation if needed, a minibus took us between hospitals in the group, designated on site GP for student health, subsidised meals which were extremely good. I always felt part of a wider community.
Did have to wear a stupid hat though.

I e stayed as a full time band five. Did a secondment as a 6 but really didn't enjoy it so stepped back down. Paediatrics is much less stressful than adults though. We have a really happy team and a good manager.

It’s also a sexist career. There are not many men in nursing but the ones that are there are quickly promoted up the ladder ahead of their female colleagues. I don’t know any men that actually remained at band 5, they were all heading up the ladder very quickly after qualifying.

a bloke I went to uni with ended up being band 6 within a year of qualifying and then band 7 a year later. He’s now a band 8. It’s much easier if you have a penis but I suppose that goes for most careers.

@Needsomeadvice33 I'm now a 31 year old nurse who earns 52k per year for only 24hours work per week (no nights).

In the NHS? I find that very hard to believe.

@BourbonBon I don’t know any men that actually remained at band 5, they were all heading up the ladder very quickly after qualifying... a bloke I went to uni with ended up being band 6 within a year of qualifying and then band 7 a year later. He’s now a band 8. It’s much easier if you have a penis but I suppose that goes for most careers.

I know a few, my DP is one. My anecdata is as useful as yours. 10 years in, slaving away as a band 5. But due to his shift allowance we'll be worse off if he goes for promotion. Tbh the way nursing is at the moment I think anyone willing to take a punt at promotion is likely to get it, I know (female) nurses only a year or two qualified who are 6s.

An employer has a duty of care towards you. Talk to them. Resilience is important but not to the point where you feel ill.

I think a mistake was made when they required all nurses have degrees. It meant many who would have the temperament but not really academic mindset would not start.

And nurses are set on a rate of pay for far too long.

Private health boom has torn the NHS apart. Doctors, nurses etc all were trained in the NHS. But too many also or exclusively work in the private sector. With not a penny back to the NHS for it.

Yes I did that training too and lived in nursing flats. I also wore the silly hats - bloody bane of my life they were!!

OP, it’s shit but hang on in there 💐 once you qualify you will have more options. Ds is nearly one year post qualification as a radiographer, he’s actually quite happy. Although he’s free and single and I can see him emigrating in a couple of years.

@Toddlerteaplease I agree with you re adult nursing compared to peads. My background is adult and everyone I know is an adult nurse and the work is genuinely soul destroying. I worked in many different areas and healthboards as an adult nurse and they were all as bad as each other. I think people should think very carefully before choosing adult/general branch of nursing. The work is already horrific and the future looks very bleak.

Being a 3rd yr student is the easiest part? Nah, the easiest part is now when you say how fabulous nursing is whilst working PT, earning £52k and not nursing (you obv don't deal with patients or work frontline). You're exactly the kind of manager or pencil pusher who creates a shit culture.

I’m so sorry, @Fifi0000 . Down here in Devon nursing students can travel to placements as far apart as Truro and Bournemouth, it’s shocking. I tained 40 years ago, when we were employed and paid by our training hospital/nursing school, with subsidised on-site accommodation. We belonged to the hospital, we paid into the NHS pension, and we did 8-week placements interspersed with 2 weeks in “school”.

While I sympathise with the drive to make nursing a graduate career, I see no reason why the old-style training couldn’t coincide with being a degree course.

Please hold on for another few months, it will get better when you qualify, I promise. You’re a precious resource and can work anywhere you want to when you’re registered, it’s a seller’s market at the moment.

Hang in there OP. Training is hard- really hard. Educators end up taking a hard line as a long of students do take the piss a bit (very much the minority but still). You can do it.
Im a nurse. It’s hard but I’m glad I did it. I specialised early in a niche area that I love. I’m top of band 7 so pushing 50k at 32 (WTE- I work 3 days a week). On my other days I do related work independently which in total brings my salary yearly to around 65k. I’m grateful for the opportunities nursing has given me but I’ve been lucky with my career and taken opportunities/pushed for training and make my role my own. Not always possible for a band 5 staff nurse.

I think we should go back to training nurses in teaching hospitals and paying them a wage after the first year. Make it a 4 year course with the first year teaching all the anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, and a first aid course.
The next 3 years would be a mix of clinical experience and specialised teaching.
Hospitals have perfectly good classrooms and lecture theatres. It doesn't matter where you hear the lecture IMO. I think it would be better for students to have a sense of belonging and familiarity with their hospital and everyone would benefit.

You are already making assumptions , I have narcolepsy so my experience is widely different to yours 🤣🤣. It's not suitable for me to drive 1.5 hours there and back on shift. This is the problem with nursing right there the assumption I must not be thick skinned enough. There's a common saying "Nurses eat their young"
Some people might be a staff nurse their entire career that's fine. I will work close to home because I don't wish to kill myself or others and I want to spend that extra time with others.

I think I will perfectly fine at the job to be honest I've managed it's the lack of flexibility in the training. fixed holidays , long commutes academic work on top which is the killer.

@whatausername yeah now is the easiest part your right. But being a student was easier than my 10 years prior to getting to this point, that was the point i was trying to make. I'm not a manager and I do work front line in a clinical role. Theres lots of opportunities in nursing now that are not management.

Very sobering OP

I'm actually doing dual qualified MH - LD . Very glad I didn't choose adult as our ratios seem a lot better. My MIL who's adult calls it danger money.. I've got a job secured newly qualified in a complex care unit combined with behavioural difficulties it's good money and ratios are better just 8 in one ward.

Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfurled beneath a clear blue sky?

Surely though there are a limited number of these well paid, low hour and enjoyable roles? If you studied 10 years ago presumably you also got the bursary for fees and so weren't £££s down every month paying back a student loan- alright for some.

I do get your point that there are options for people beyond working bedside as a band 5 forever, but seems odd to suggest that as the viable route instead of listening to people's concerns and issues and wishing it was better for everyone at all levels. What is the saying about pulling the ladder up behind you?

My opinion , student nurses are often treated as the hospital skivvy. It’s much better once you are qualified even if the first year is still very tough. I’m always given the student nurses and I try to be kind to them as much as possible as I remember well what is was like.

A lot of nurses are bullying arseholes so it’s not always better once you qualify.

I’m a student nurse in second year, just had a baby. Baby is 5 weeks old and when I go back in a couple of months they said they can’t make special allowances for where I am placed. I have been placed about 2 hours commute to the placement before and 2 hours home. After a 12 hour shift, same as you. It’s quite frankly dangerous to expect anyone to do those hours and that drive. When I applied they said I wouldn’t ever drive past a hospital or placement location. Yet people who live 2 hours from me have been placed in my doctors surgery 5min drive from my house. When asked if we can switch , me and the other student they said no. So we literally passed each other every morning and evening going in opposite directions. She lived 20 mins from my placement on that occasion. I am planning to drop out as it’s unrealistic and I will never make the hours due to childcare now. I could go in 7 days a week and still be under hours if they continue to place me hours away. I could easily do 7 hours a day locally and still get back for childcare pick up, but being 2 hours away I would have to leave not long after arriving.

you would think they would support student nurses and other nhs professions doing degrees to ensure we could achieve what we needed to pass and graduate. I have had assessors etc who went on sick leave for 4 weeks, the first week I started a placement and wasn’t allowed to change assessor and only met her twice and she wouldn’t sign certain things of cause she said she didn’t know me well enough even though the entire team I was with could vouch for me and I did all the proficiencies infront of her.

really irks me… oh and then there’s the really rude nurses who don’t even have the time of day to speak to you or even show you anything cause they are to busy for a student . Oh and some Hcas that sit on their arse saying ‘the student can do it’ when I’m not there to do their job, I’m there to learn medication rounds etc …

wouldn’t blame you for leaving the degree or profession.

BourbonBon but when you qualify at least you have choices, you can find other jobs, work part time or back or whatever.

Well this isn't me as I've had no problems passing placement, I've worked on wards for a number of years so I already knew what it was like work wise before starting. It's the other crap on top.