Childcare - cost and competition for spaces

[BingBoings]

Childcare is hitting crisis point where I live in London.

We have three nurseries which offer full time places. Most only do morning or afternoons (not much good if you work).

The cost of all three is now around £2,000 per month.

Not only this - but getting a place at any of them is wildly competitive.

You need to register before they’re born to get a place by the time they’re 9 months old. At one of them you have to register when pregnant to get a place by age 3 (I can’t even work out the maths of how this is possible).

You can’t take them out during maternity leave or you will lose your place. I know of two families paying for nursery and a nanny (!) so the older child doesn’t lose their place, but because their parental leave has run out before a space became available at a nursery.

What are parents supposed to do? It seems enormously counter-productive for the country.

The cost, the difficulty in getting a place, the lack of flexibility… it’s just hopeless…!

Where are you in London? 2k for the cheapest still seems particularly unusual.
I’m zone 3 and there is a range between about £1100-£2000.

I think it’s normal everywhere for the maternity leave thing, it’s not that you can’t take them out it’s that you can’t hold a place without paying for it. Which obviously makes sense. It’s unlikely they can fill that place for X months only.

I will be paying for full time nursery for DC1 when I’m on mat leave.

Putting your name down for a nursery during pregnancy is actually the cause of this problem imo. Where I an people out there name down for several so it artificially inflated the waiting lists.

£1,100 for a full time place for a baby? I don’t know of anyone paying anything like that - the lowest I’ve heard for a baby is £1,700.

The cheapest in my area is £1,900 - and the most expensive £2,150.

I appreciate why the nurseries do what they do - it’s just a hopeless situation for those using them.

Its a completely broken system.

Use alternative childcare like a childminder?

Though to be fair my childminder hasn't had a free place for a child under one since lockdown finished. As soon as one mindee gets to about 14 months if she has free space she gets another one under one.

Use a childminder, job done.

@Reugny I’ve investigated childminders but there’s none within a sensible distance.

I already need to commute to work on public transport - so an extra 30 mins at the start and end of each day to get to a childminder makes the day very very long.

The ‘oh just use a childminder’ comments are missing the point here…

… there should be adequate, affordable childcare available - it’s in the governments interests for people to be able to work.

Sounds similar to where I am. Loads of lovely preschools for 2+ that are half day sessions, term time only and where fees match those of the private schools they’re typically linked with. Very few proper day nurseries and all £2000 at least for a baby. No surprise that every family I know with under 5s either has a SAHP, nanny or au pair.

Yes there should be, but people aren't missing the point suggesting a childminder are they? As no one on here has the power to better fund nurseries immediately or ensure places are more affordable people were just pointing out an option worth exploring.

I very much doubt anyone is going to disagree that it's ridiculously expensive and be against it being more affordable.

Well childcare staff are certainly not reaping the benefits. NMW treated like crap. We are expected to do more of the role of a health visitor for shit pay. I would actually like to see all childcare staff get a fair wage for the job we do. Not really the answer to your question but another thing that needs to change in the childcare sector.

This is the worst bit tbh, if the high fees at least meant the staff looking after the children recieved a decent wage then at least that would be something. As is that's not the case.

@FlounderingFruitcake The nannies are wildly expensive too - £3-4k a month. Although I suppose that is to be expected.

You would have thought that lots of demand would mean more people
opening nurseries - but as I understand it, they can barely turn a profit even with the astronomical pricing.

I'm with you, FT nursery around here is also around £2k/month and it's of course the only type of nursery option if you work FT i.e. you need the long days and year round.

You can't pause for mat leave or you lose your place.
If you want Tues - Thurs places at 1y.o you need to register by the time they are two months.

So not quite as crazy as London but still nuts.

Childminders are (unsurprisingly) even harder to find. I think round here people just pay it, don't work or are wealthy enough to afford a nanny.

DH and I both earn fairly equally so it makes sense to continue with its, but I completely understand why so many women don't work.

Childcare in this country is a disgrace. I suspect nothing gets done about it because most people use it for about a 5-10 year window and then think 'well I paid for it so future generations should'.

1000 a month is standard where we are in Essex

It's terrible, the staff at my sons nursery are wonderful I would pay more if it went to them! As it is I try to take in gifts or chocolates occasionally to hopefully make them feel appreciated

While i dont experience the problems of inner London childcare, I share your sentiment @bingboings that there is insufficient affordable provision. In the south east where i am several nurseries have closed, and others have significantly increased rates, squuezing parents financially and in terms of choice of setting.

Re. The travel time - yes, im afraid 30mins extra travel time each end of the day is to be expected if you dont have a nanny. Not nice, tiring, but normal.

I think there are more problems to come in the childcare world as finacial pressures on nurseries grow, and for many parents their take home pay doesnt increase anywhere near in line with outgoings. But it can only be the govt who can change this. And as we all know they dont give a flying fuck.

@SurreyMumOfOne I know ours advise that if you want a place at two they need to be down from birth as it’s so competitive. Presumably people use nannies until then if working full time?

To me this blows my mind, especially given the fees parents pay and then to find out that staff are slaving away, acting as teachers and carers, HVs all in one and for wages under £20k, it’s so unfair

Central London - we needed places for DT’s - full time from when they were six months old. Had to visit nurseries and get name down when I was five months pregnant. This is 22 years ago so nothing has changed.

@Happycow an extra 30 minutes travel time just won’t work on top of our existing commutes.

For the opening hours, let alone the length of the baby’s day.

I’m with you, south London and similar prices. It was crippling when we had two I childcare and the “free” hours barely made a dent when my oldest because eligible. Maternity leave was so stressful waiting to hear if we got a place. I put names down when pregnant (after the 12 week scan for the second) at various nurseries and still didn’t get a space at some places! My oldest has just started school and a place never came up for her at our preferred nursery in all that time! Spoke to the nursery manager the other day and she said the waiting list has been closed for a while as they just can’t add more people to it as it’s so long!

It’s insane OP. I’m in a similar sounding bit of London. There just aren’t enough nursery places. We registered pre birth and it’s still looking very unlikely we’ll get a place. And because of stupid house prices the child minders have all been forced out to the cheaper bits of the borough, so using one of them makes for a very tricky day.

I knew childcare was going to be expensive, I didn’t expect it to be so bloody hard to find.

My daughter is 18, I put her name down for nursery when I was 12 weeks pregnant. That isn't new.

@Parker231 If I had twins I’d get a nanny I think.

it would cost £50k a year to put two in nursery at the same time.

And because its a problem that predominantly affects women who, regardless of career prospects, are still expected to be the main carer and responsible for dealing with childcare issues. It's also largely women who end up forced out of the workplace due to childcare issues. DH works for an organisation that prides itself on work-life balance, setting an example in terms of flexibility, equality, blah blah blah yet when DH needed to take a day off at short notice to deal with a poorly child his manager's said "you have a wife for that sort of thing". Never mind that said wife has her own career.

If society viewed childcare as a male responsibility you can bet your arse that it would be a requirement for all companies over a specific size to provide subsidised childcare for employees, fully flexible hours, hybrid working, term time only options, salary sacrifice schemes specifically for childcare fees and other measures that ease the burden.