Childcare - cost and competition for spaces

[BingBoings]

Childcare is hitting crisis point where I live in London.

We have three nurseries which offer full time places. Most only do morning or afternoons (not much good if you work).

The cost of all three is now around £2,000 per month.

Not only this - but getting a place at any of them is wildly competitive.

You need to register before they’re born to get a place by the time they’re 9 months old. At one of them you have to register when pregnant to get a place by age 3 (I can’t even work out the maths of how this is possible).

You can’t take them out during maternity leave or you will lose your place. I know of two families paying for nursery and a nanny (!) so the older child doesn’t lose their place, but because their parental leave has run out before a space became available at a nursery.

What are parents supposed to do? It seems enormously counter-productive for the country.

The cost, the difficulty in getting a place, the lack of flexibility… it’s just hopeless…!

The state of childcare in this country just now is abysmal just like many other services. Our out of school care has just closed down due to lack of funding and there are no childminders do pick up from our school as they have all shut since covid as again no funding. The old fashioned button of a stay at home parent is a great idea but not feasible now when so many things are rising in price and I need to keep a roof over my kids heads.

Absolutely! About the same time as just the man's wage could cover a mortgage for a reasonable family home.

As pp said, housing as far out stripped everything else and most people I know have to both work in a couple just to keep a roof over their heads.

The ones who can afford nurseries are the lucky ones for whom the equation still pays out.

Well I had a mother’s help when I was young. I won’t call it a nanny because I don’t think she was qualified. She’s just an older lady cooked us dinners, did the house work, filled our fridge etc.

So I don’t remember that time you mentioned at all.

Im in the midland and FT would still be £1,400 pcm

My 2 y/o is currently attending a preschool which is 9-3 term time only as this is the only childcare I can find. There are loads of preschools (9-3) and the only childminders I can find are TTO (but either don’t have spaces or don’t respond)

DS was at a nursery but I had to pull him out due numerous concerns (some relating to safeguarding). It’s been 6 months but I don’t have even a hint of a nursery space within a 30 minute drive of home or work. Actually I tell a lie I did find a nursery for DS with availability on one day a week.

Im going to chase the nurseries this week as DS will be three soon but I’m not hopeful there will be any availability until September!

Part of the problem is the funded hours, they nowhere near cover the cost. I ran a term time only Charity preschool. We’ve just had to close because I couldn’t afford the rent increase, and pay staff a competitive wage (myself included). None of the staff have stayed in childcare as they are paid much more in retail or dog walking. ofsted also removed a lot of qualifications and older people who were considered qualified are no longer, they have no desire the repeat their training.
Nurseries are desperate for staff, it’s an absolute mess.

I know the feeling OP.
Part of the reason CMs are so thin on the ground here is because house prices are so crazy, if a house costs 1m plus then those people are unlikely to be CMs, DD is almost in school and im so happy. 2k is very normal and 2.5 are the "fancy" ones

@OnlyFoolsnMothers I’m amazed you’ve never had issues getting a place at a London nursery - everyone I know has a nightmare with it

@trampoline123 We already split the drop off a collection to try and manage the day. I wouldn’t be able to do both drop off and pick up and do my daily hours.

@Treaclex69 yes looked at this but waiting lists no better - also becomes an insanely long day for the baby.

@gogohmm its not really realistic to live on one wage in many parts of the U.K. in 2023. Especially with kids.

Yep it's crazy.

DH & I both need to work to pay the mortgage and bills.

Nursery is £106 for a full a day. And that's not the most expensive around here! Every nursery has a waiting list.

Couldn't get a decent childminder. A lot have given up beacuse of all the paperwork now. A space came up about 3months after I returned to work but 45 other people had messaged about it within 24hrs.

It wasn't worth me working full time, so DD does 1 short day, and two half days with grandparents picking up the 2 afternoons. We are very lucky.

Even then our last bill was £883.

We live in commutable distance to London, which I do 2 days, costing £28 a day!

Cost of living crisis plus the childcare crisis means I have £8 a month disposable income right now after my half of all the bills!

What find really odd is despite the high demand and high prices, local nurseries are closing frequently. I know 2 that have closed since December. They just can't maintain the buildings, pay the staff, heat the place and make a profit.

I live in the NW and in my area full time nursery is £1450 per month as an average. 3 miles away it's £1200 because it's a less desirable area (cheaper houses, poorer schools etc). Luckily I live in my area but work in the other, so was able to take advantage of the cheaper childcare.

And child minders near me are as easy to get in with as the mafia.

The costs- the electricity and gas prices alone have probably crippled many businesses, the staff have to be adequately paid- their NI too, insurance etc- it’s a very expensive business.

@Namechange828492

yes I hadn’t really considered that about childminders until I started looking for one.

House prices are so high you are unlikely to be able to afford one as a childminder. So… no childminders.

@NotMeekNotObedient £106 a day is brutal - although, I wouldn’t be surprised if mine was that by 2024.

Im zone 3 SW London / Surrey border and ours is £1700 a month FT but you get a 10% discount for 5 days a week so its around £1500. And i put DD's name down at a few months old, def not when pregnant. I agree the system is broken but there are def some parts of London that are more affordable (relative) than others. How far are you able to travel?

Nice to see the 'use a childminder' brigade are out again.

I live in the SE commuter belt and childminders are few and far between. Plus they aren't much cheaper and have huge waiting lists.

I'm assuming property costs and sizes play a massive part in it. You need a property to mind from, and if you can't afford that property on a child minders wage then you can't be a child minder.

Could I ask that you consider posting on this thread?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/guest_posts/4755180-guest-post-from-mp-andrea-leadsom-share-your-views-about-early-year-services?reply=124436090

I don't think childcare is intended to be the focus but it's clearly a broken system and I think we need to shout that from the rooftops at every opportunity.

I think nanny shares should be more widely used. They often work well and while not cheap are comparable (or cheaper) than some of these nursery fees and offer lots of other benefits over a nursery (and some drawbacks of course).

Child care workers certainly aren't reaping the benefits of those high costs.

I know of two nursery owners, they both earn well over £100k (closer to £130).

I'm not in the UK but I got on a waiting list when I was 3 months pregnant. A whole year later I got only Monday and Friday offered.

It's expensive too.

But I knew all that. Why are people whinging when they know the circumstances ? If you didn't know you should really find out before having a kid (or 2). We're also 'one and done'.

People have 2+ kids in London and complain that nurseries are expensive** and have long waiting lists. My 98 yo grandma with dementia could have told you that.

I wonder if the frenzy, fuels the frenzy. I know people who have their names down at multiple places 'just incase', so it means they are on 5 or so waiting lists, which then gives a false impression of the demand. It also sounds like perhaps the cost need to be capped (something I wouldn't normally be in favour of, as it sounds like some places may be taken advantage). Not sure what the childminder comments either, some people don't want to do that which is fair enough I wouldn't either if I jad a choice

Why continue to live in London then? It's cheaper outside of the city and other benefits than just affordable and available childcare? My twins are with a childminder £85 per day for both. Including meals, activities and snacks. If I wanted to be in London - and I do go there for work several times a week - I could get the fast train and be there in little over an hour (I'm 100 miles both of London)

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/10/treasury-considering-huge-expansion-free-childcare-england

will this actually be implemented in this month budget? I don’t have high hopes from the government tbh.

@theholidaymum even that guardian article is perpetuating the myth that the hours are free. It is just a massive lie when for so many parents and settings they just aren’t. I wish the communication was much clearer that it is in effect a subsidy. I think the messaging hides a lot of the challenges because people think everyone with a 3yo is getting free, universal provision.

What a stupid comment. Why ‘whinge’ about anything? To push for change obviously.
Workers rights would be nothing like they were today if people didn’t ‘whinge’ about it.
NMW would never be increased if people didn’t ‘whinge’ about it.
Everyone in the country should have access to affordable childcare which is of a good standard that allows them to work and fosters their child’s development.
Many countries already have good working models of this.
Its not something which is this crazy unachievable socialist concept.

Yeah I don’t mind they just say it frankly that the government will top up £500/months (£4.50/hours 6 hours a day 39 weeks). Rather than call it “30 free hours”. We should be able to get the support in September this year, but if they can change so that we get the fund earlier that would be good.
every things help at the moment. We currently pay £1700/month for nursery full time (both working full time and no relatives to help out). It’s beyond a disgrace that the government doesn’t care at all for working families below 3 years old. What do they expect us to do? Stay off works for 3 years because of “being a mom” and we should give up our works? What’s the point of having maternity leave then?

Definitely fuels it! I was pretty much the only one I knew not on multiple lists.
They have an small application fee which many people are happy to pay a few times over and then have their pick closer to the time. I think if you could only apply with a full months payment the numbers of people on multiple waiting lists would go down significantly.