To ask if Civil Service are really enforcing the hybrid work policy to the letter?

[Lilifer]

I hope some CIvil Service employees can help me here. I about to leave a job for a position in the civil service. My current job is 90% remote and I love the work and my team but it's s big US corporation and the holiday and time off is quite restricted compared to the civil service which I think offers s better work life balance, flexitime more annual leave etc

The civil service Job ad says their policy is 2 days in office and 3 days work from home. Problem is I live 55 miles from office and nearby parking is £25-£30 a day and there's no civil service discount becasue there's so much demand for it that there's a waiting list. I did not know that when I accepted Job and now this adds £50-60 per week to my commute bill., as well as about £40 per week on fuel.

Are there any CS employees out there who can advise me how much flexibility there is in individual departments on the hybrid policy. Do they take in to account individual Circs such as how far away people live and the likely cost to them of parking etc or is it a rigid rule set for all regardless of circs?

Am quite worried about this and am thinking of now reversing my resignation in my current job. I really really wanted this cs job and if they can allow me to work a bit less in office then I don't mind a bit of extra expense but can't justify £200-£240 per month just for parking and the same amount again for fuel.

My DH has to do one day in the office but it’s very strict eg if his normal day in is Friday and he’s on leave on the Friday, he needs to go in a different day. They were flexible in the last few weeks of my pregnancy as he wanted to be at home.

My experience is that it varies hugely. There's no consistency at all. I'm civil service and still completely at home, because of the way my specific team works. Other teams the hybrid working is strictly enforced. I think you need to speak to someone who's recruited you and ask them the question.

Surely you should be speaking to your new employers? The CS is a massive organisation covering everything from local job centres to the home office. How can anyone on here help, without knowing your specifics?

Completely varies by department, mine has always had a remote working culture due to the nature of the work and there is no expectation of going to an office unless needed for a meeting. Others are stricter though.

You need to speak to the employers about this - I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up by either of you so far?

The family I have working in CS do have the 2 in / 3 home policy enforced quite strictly unless there is a reasonable adjustment etc.

Hi thanks yes I have heard that it is pretty varied.
I did speak with my future boss there (but this was before I became aware of the parking issue) and she said they can be a bit flexible say for eg in winter because I would have so far to travel etc so that is positive but I suppose I am hoping that long term once I am out of probation and settled in the job I would have more flexibility myself to have less days in some weeks if needed.

I guess also I am wondering like how do they handle it if you try to to the tow days in office and find for whatever reason that it becomes unsustainable whether due to finances or 3 hours commute time taking too much out of you or family reasons. Can they fire you if you can't make the 2 day quota regularily?

Thank you. That isn't too bad, I could manage one day a week easy enough, still would cost me £45 per day but that would be doable

It varies so much. I am currently one day (should be 2) will do twice a month in my new role but it is informal and they can force me in. I line manage staff hundreds of miles from their pin as they were hired (by others) in Covid. There can be a lot more flexibility than officially, but you are always at risk if it being informal.

I work in a central Government department and it is strictly enforced. If the role was advertised as 2 days in the office then that will be the expectation. They won’t take into account that it is expensive for you to do this since you applied for the job knowing the requirements. You may also want to consider there remains some political pressure for the 2 days to be increased.

My department are strict on the two days a week in office and it is monitored via a weekly return. They would argue that you knew where the office was when you took the role, it wasn’t a remote/WFH contract and it’s up to you to work out if the travel time and cost is feasible.

And yes they can fire you for not doing the 2 days per week in the office. It would be the same as any other requirement of the role that you are unable to meet. The civil service is really good at providing flexible working opportunities but I would really counsel you not to take a role which explicitly says 2 days per week if you know now you can’t do that

I also think you need to think about how you are viewed by your peers.

We are also a min of two days in the office but some of my colleagues that live further away come in one day at most and it’s starting to impact the ‘team’. Some people are happy to take the money but not do the travel…

In my department it's not enforced "to the letter", but there is overall monitoring - you can be flexible as long as you broadly average 40% in the office. Cost/travel time wouldn't come into it - based on the fact it's your choice to take a job at an office in a certain location. Family circumstances potentially - eg specific caring responsibilities (I know people with extra flexibility who are caring for terminally ill relatives or have children with significant additional needs). Yes you could be put on performance management for not complying, and they could let you go during probation (or ultimately fire you after a longer period)

Ok yes I see. Well actually the job ad actually stated 2 days a week in office or less where business allows... or some phrasing like that so I took that to mean there is some flexibility and that seems to be borne out by what my boss said. When I spoke to her I was happy with the two days as long as flexibility on it if/when needed and I still think that is reasonable and for the first year or so I shall work in that basis but I guess I was hoping that once established in job I might have more autonomy to drop down to one day a week if the business need alllows it.

Ok thanks all, that has given me some good food for thought, perhaps I need to re think if this is the right job for me after all.

Don’t forget that if you need to work in another office for the day (e.g. I work for an ALB and attend meetings in London and the Midlands) they will also be counted but you should be able to wangle travel expenses and station parking for those. I do one day in the office and one in another and both are counted.

It varies completely and even is manager dependent sometimes. The department I work in is now 60% office based but that only applies to some teams! Cost of parking or long commute won't usually be acceptable reasons to vary the policy but family reasons might be (if you get a decent manager).

My husband is CS and I think it depends team to team, based on his experience. He’s hybrid working and we live 80 miles away. Technically he’s due in once a week and sometimes he’ll go in once a week for a month. Then he won’t go in at all for 3 months. It was like that in his previous job. They don’t take into consideration where you live as it’s your choice to live close/far away.

I think you have to accept that you will be going in at least 2 days per week. Of course they can fire you (after due process) if you can't be or refuse to be where they want you to be in line with your contract.

As PP said there's pressure to increase the days. We're seeing many organisations reporting that home working doesn't work that well for them and they're looking to reverse/reduce it.

I'd also expect that while you're settling in you're in a bit more than the bare minimum tbh.

@Lilifer I see! I think that, as a PP mentioned, there remains some political pressure for us to be in more, not less, so even if you were performing well and at a local level your team, directorate etc seemed ok with it being less than 2 days, there is always the possibility that the mandate could come from above anyway. It is one of the more maddening things about the CS, but there is also a fair amount of good too.

I'd ask the question direct. It varies.
I know people who go in less but do a very long day when they are in etc

OP I advise you get the role and speak to the hiring manager, it really depends on your department, team, manager, grade, specialism. I am in a specialist role and we have a lot of flexibility because we are hard to recruit for in my area, but I work in an organisation where there operational staff are afforded much less flexibility and are expected to come in strictly. It's really hard for anyone to say here.

They will be looking to enforce the 2 days, as a minimum - my department expects 3 days at present.

The civil service has an emphasis on treating people equally, which means they are unlikely to make individual exceptions to the policy unless you have e.g. a health need. The fact that you live a long distance away is your issue, not theirs - you are choosing to apply for a job 50 miles away.

I wouldn't presume that there will be flexibility. If there is, it's great; but I'd expect that there won't be for new starters if that's the direction they want to go in, and it'd probably just be for emergencies, which is what your boss has suggested - it could be less if snow was awful in the Winter, etc, but on a regular basis, it'd be two days in the office.

I'd honestly approach your boss here and say that you won't be able to make two days a week work. You need a solid new plan.

I’m an SCS1 and frequently have to decide appeals regarding complaints about our flexible working. While we are as flexible as we can be I’ll be honest here, I would be deeply unimpressed at someone taking a job and knowing before they started the office/WFH split wouldn’t work for them. There’s plenty of jobs I’d like to apply for but they don’t work for my individual circumstances and so I don’t apply for them. It isn’t just about whether you feel you can complete your tasks remotely, we have had massive issues regarding new starters ‘bedding in’ and have found those staff in the office tend to do more of the smaller less ‘measure d’ but essential tasks.

Depending on the role, dept and grade we can often recruit a complementary set of staff with different but equally important experience in the hope they will learn off each other. This happens far less at home.

Im not at all anti WFH (on a personal level I much prefer it and did wfh for most of my third trimester) but it isn’t always best for the business.