To ask if Civil Service are really enforcing the hybrid work policy to the letter?

[Lilifer]

I hope some CIvil Service employees can help me here. I about to leave a job for a position in the civil service. My current job is 90% remote and I love the work and my team but it's s big US corporation and the holiday and time off is quite restricted compared to the civil service which I think offers s better work life balance, flexitime more annual leave etc

The civil service Job ad says their policy is 2 days in office and 3 days work from home. Problem is I live 55 miles from office and nearby parking is £25-£30 a day and there's no civil service discount becasue there's so much demand for it that there's a waiting list. I did not know that when I accepted Job and now this adds £50-60 per week to my commute bill., as well as about £40 per week on fuel.

Are there any CS employees out there who can advise me how much flexibility there is in individual departments on the hybrid policy. Do they take in to account individual Circs such as how far away people live and the likely cost to them of parking etc or is it a rigid rule set for all regardless of circs?

Am quite worried about this and am thinking of now reversing my resignation in my current job. I really really wanted this cs job and if they can allow me to work a bit less in office then I don't mind a bit of extra expense but can't justify £200-£240 per month just for parking and the same amount again for fuel.

@Hawse sounds similar to mine, every now and then it becomes the hot topic again and it's out in all the comms, then it dies off with no change.

@LookingOldTheseDays good thing about travel is it is expensed (and counts towards your office attendance) I think I've spent more time in our sister offices than I have my own for that reason 😂

Also (assuming it is the SOLS within HMRC), it's worth noting that SOLS are one of the few directorates that aren't enforcing 3 days a week in the office, and are currently sticking to only 2. If/when they change those arrangements they'd likely be increasing it to be consistent with the rest of the department, not decreasing it.

@Lilifer I'm a Civil Servant in a central government dept and worked on writing our dept's hybrid working policy, as part of this work I know a lot about the approaches of other departments. I also have friends who work in different CS departments so I know a lot about this.

My dept is one of the most flexible and operates on a principle-based approach rather than needing to be in ×-many days per week (likely because we don't have a minister, so far less pressure). So apart from some specialist roles that require far more attendance, most go in to the office for certain meetings.

However, if your department has told you it's 2 days+ a week office attendance, this will highly likely be strictly enforced. Some departments even monitor IP addresses to make sure people are logged on in the office enough (I guess to prevent line managers from allowing people to secretly stay at home).

A close friend of mine suffers from anxiety and MH and during a particularly bad period about a year ago, his doctor gave him a fit note- not to sign him off work, but to work from home. The department rejected it flat out and he had to get signed off completey in order to avoid office attendance.

And I'm not allowed to work on the train (due to the nature of what I do) so I get the flexitime credit while reading a book!

@LookingOldTheseDays ah yes that too!

The only downside is that travel to London (e.g. for tribunals) from where I live involves a pre-6am train, which is brutal.

Just to.add another perspective.
I've worked in ALBs and a govt dept for over 30 years so I have a bit of experience!
In September I joined a well established team, located over 5 offices so even when in the office we are rarely in the same one.
I have found it incredibly difficult to 'break into' the team, they never put cameras on, I'm a bit deaf in one ear so do lip read a fair bit so am hindered in teams meetings, you don't get the body language or pick up on moods. After 5 months I'm very much an outsider.
I gave feedback to my line manager about the cameras, we had one meeting with them on, with everyone moaning about having to do their hair.
I'm at the end of my career and will be leaving in May.
I feel really sorry for the youngsters starting out trying to work in this environment

Have you looked at websites where you rent someone’s drive for parking? It’s not clear where you’re travelling to but generally it’s £10 per day in major cities - even London. Or is there a better rain service you could get on to nearby etc?

they never put cameras on

This is a pet hate of mine, for the same reasons as you. This is the first place I've worked where people think it's OK to routinely do meetings with cameras off.

I get it in a big conference call with dozens of attendees, but if it's a 3 person meeting, let's actually see each other!

It totally depends on the culture of the team you are in. As does the frequency of travel to other sites, often involving an overnight trip.

@LookingOldTheseDays

My previous team was cameras on from day 1 working from home for all meetings.
No cameras is very hard work, people really should be over it by now.

I am in a department that promised hybrid working and then decided one Wednesday that there would be no home working from the following week. Everyone had to come straight back in.
I have a friend that works in a different area in the same department. She works from one of the hubs. None of the rest of her team do. So when she is in the office she is on her own in a room full of strangers doing a completely different job. She still has to go in three times each week. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Hi it depends on the department - some are enforcing with weekly tracker sheets etc; others are expecting much more than 2 days pew; others still (or some teams at least) are not following this policy at all it seems.

@Lilifer I have to agree with this. You would quickly be subject to disciplinary proceedings, and you definitely would not pass probabtion. It's the same as any other job requirement, and if you're unable to fill it, the job is unfortunately unsuitable for you, which it sounds as if this is.

To make it fair on everyone, there is little leniency where attendance requirements are set- even with health conditions and other extreme personal circumstances.

Many Civil Servants pay significantly higher living costs to be close to their offices and reduce commutes (often in city/town centres), so higher commute costs are unfortunately the trade off for those who live further afield.

It varies a lot, depending on dept. But if it says 2 days on the advert that is what is expected usually as minimum. For example my dept is 3 days, 2 days as per your advert is more typical.

However a couple if caveats and worth talking to your potential boss about

It does depend on what office you are based at. For example in my dept the smaller regional offices are less strict than the London office.

It also often possible to negotiate a home working contract but you may get a lower salary.

The cost of a 3-day vs 5-day railcard is not remotely relevant to an employer when setting their days in the office. Also cost is far from the only reason some people like to WFH, and the train is usually not the only cost of going into the office. Plenty of us would rather pay for a 5-day railcard, if that’s what’s necessary, and come in for 3 days then pay for a 5-day railcard and come in 5 days. It doesn’t “need” to be anything.

We’re allowed to WFH 2 days a week but it’s very much a limit not a target. I only started recently and we were expected to be in every day for the first month or so so there’s that to consider. 4 of us started at the same time and 3of us come in most days and have learnt a lot from colleagues and are making good relationships. 1 of us lives further away and sticks to 3 days a week but has actually been in less due to train strikes and childcare issues and she hasn’t done half of what the rest of us have, she isn’t making connections and very much lacks confidence. People are already starting to grumble about her not being in much too.

In my office we're supposed to be in a minimum of two days a week and it isn't currently monitored.

Some of my colleagues will do anything they can to get out of coming into the office, which is harming their reputation with some seniors due to some of the ways they go about achieving this.

And some of my colleagues would prefer to be in the office all the time (and are), due to working much more effectively this way - for a variety of reasons.

The resentment and divide between these groups is growing, and generally speaking, the output and standards of a lot of our wider team's work has decreased massively since hybrid working. Not everyone can see or is prepared to acknowledge this but it has soured the working environment.

I appreciate that won't be the situation throughout CS departments/teams, but it is in mine, in my specific location.

Out of interest OP, does the office you will be employed to work in attract any locational allowances/retention payments? That also makes a difference to how much flexibility you might have.

Oh wow that's pretty strict then 😱

But why would my manager to be indicate that she is prepared to be flexible as long as it's within reason and agreed with her in advance?

No this is a regional city not London (I would rather not say which city as it could out me) so no Weighting involved - despite that it's regional parking is eye wateringly expensive in the centre of city but there are park and ride services it's just they add to my commute time a fair bit

Yes thanks I do and I have thought that this could be an option for me if I find this to hard to sustain 🙌🏻

Because right now that's within her gift. But if a dictate comes from on high that says she has to monitor attendance and enforce it, she won't have a choice.

I don't work in CS but I do work for a CS affiliated agency and they have been cracking down and much as I would be relaxed there's a limit to how relaxed I can be, particular if my manager is cracking down on me.

Just to repeat that 2 days in a minimum, and at any moment the Government could remove the easement and make it five days.

All job adverts are really clear that there is currently a hybrid working approach but this is not contractual and can instead be removed.

Would be rare for a civil servant to drive to central city central location. Almost everyone gets a train, frequently driving to a station and then a long walk into the office. Lots of people have very long commutes so wouldn't be unusual.

When people refer to flexibility they mean if for some reason you can't come in one.week that's OK. Eg train strike. But then you make it up the rest of the month

Not that there's flexibility in the two day minimum

OP I've only just seen this post.

My department includes legal roles, and these are the ones where they are far less casual as there is more need for attendance- they usually require people to be in at least 3 days per week.

For context- I also managed a large and national recruitment campaign for a legal role, and a lot of people were in your position where they were offered the job, then tried to negotiate on attendance requirements. Many dropped out, but a few were granted formal agreements.

What I'm saying OP is that it would be unusual for your Line Manager to have that much power in the flexibility, particularly where for a legal role where workplace attendance is more integral to the job.
So without a formal agreement, you might find that flexibility wanes, and as other PPs have pointed out, even if the LM is currently under pressure to ensure compliance, that will likely change.