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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Nightclub took DDs epipens

506 replies

anaphyl4xis · 04/03/2023 08:56

My DD - 18 and a 1st year uni student - went to a nightclub last night and they refused to let her keep her epipens on her. They said if she needed them
She had to go to the medical room.

She was with a group of friends and had all paid to get in and the venue also refused to refund if they decided not to go in.

AIBU to be absolutely livid and to follow this up with the company.

For context my daughter has a life threatening allergy to nuts - but not peanuts.

OP posts:
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5
Xol · 04/03/2023 11:12

But I do believe that as they become adults we have to take a step back when they ask us to.

I think people taking this sort of attitude are thinking about the sort of situation where it would potentially embarrass the 18 year old for a parent to step in, e.g. if they went and complained to the university about something.

But that isn't the situation here. OP can perfectly well complain without even identifying her daughter, though if that is what she does it would probably make sense to make a preliminary inquiry about their policy and practice (e.g. a quick call to ask if it's OK to bring an epipen in). There really is a public interest in this sort of policy being dealt with quickly, because someone could literally die tonight as a result of it.

EqualFranknessWithYourLadyship · 04/03/2023 11:16

Agree re public interest

GrinAndVomit · 04/03/2023 11:18

Xol · 04/03/2023 11:12

But I do believe that as they become adults we have to take a step back when they ask us to.

I think people taking this sort of attitude are thinking about the sort of situation where it would potentially embarrass the 18 year old for a parent to step in, e.g. if they went and complained to the university about something.

But that isn't the situation here. OP can perfectly well complain without even identifying her daughter, though if that is what she does it would probably make sense to make a preliminary inquiry about their policy and practice (e.g. a quick call to ask if it's OK to bring an epipen in). There really is a public interest in this sort of policy being dealt with quickly, because someone could literally die tonight as a result of it.

No. I’m not confused.
The daughter is an adult who told her mum not to get involved.
I believe her mum should respect that boundary.
I don’t think you can teach someone to stand up for themself by completely disregarding what they’ve told you and acting on their behalf.
Discuss it. Try to put your point across. Labour why this is very important. Don’t just stampede ahead against their wishes.
I’m fine with the fact that other people disagree with me on that.

Rainbowshit · 04/03/2023 11:19

Coraline353 · 04/03/2023 10:19

This is awful. I'd be naming and shaming all over social media as well as complaining, liberally tagging in Anaphylaxis campaign and others.

Also all those news articles claiming spiking was done by an EpiPen like device are entirely without proof of that. I haven't seen a y where the device was actually found. Have you seen the size of needles on Epipens? They're bloody massive. Someone injects you with an EpiPen you're going to know about it, trust me. They were designed by the US military to go through heavy combat gear!

As for those asking why an 18 year old is embarrassed by her allergy you've obviously never had to go through the daily rigmarole of being the awkward one. No I can't go that restaurant because of nuts. No I can't share a takeout because of nuts. Yes I have to have a manager take.my order in the restaurant and be singled out because of nuts. It's endless and takes time to find that resilience.

Whenever my DC have used their epipen they've ended up with bruising. It needs a bit of force. If you've been injected by an epipen you bloody well will know about it immediately.

bonjello · 04/03/2023 11:20

GrinAndVomit · 04/03/2023 11:18

No. I’m not confused.
The daughter is an adult who told her mum not to get involved.
I believe her mum should respect that boundary.
I don’t think you can teach someone to stand up for themself by completely disregarding what they’ve told you and acting on their behalf.
Discuss it. Try to put your point across. Labour why this is very important. Don’t just stampede ahead against their wishes.
I’m fine with the fact that other people disagree with me on that.

Show quote history

I totally agree with this.

bonjello · 04/03/2023 11:21

Rainbowshit · 04/03/2023 10:58

cakeorwine
FFS - do you know how hard it is dealing with food allergies?
It's hard to trust restaurants, to get them to take it seriously as an adult, let alone as a 16 year old.

Must be eating at different places to you. I've been out a lot with someone who can't eat gluten and they take it very seriously everywhere I've been.

Am I actually reading this right? You're actually telling someone with food allergies they are wrong based on the fact that you sometimes eat out with someone who can't eat gluten?!?! 🙈🙈🙈

No I'm not saying they are wrong. I later say I'm sorry to hear they don't have the same experience that I've had.

And a gluten allergy can be pretty serious

bonjello · 04/03/2023 11:23

anaphyl4xis · 04/03/2023 11:04

Yes I agree - I'm not suggesting I overrule her view and make a big fuss on her behalf.

My question was probably worded badly I should have said 'are we being unreasonable to think this is unacceptable and to make a complaint'

Show quote history

Ok that's completely different and yes you should both make a massive complaint.

lieselotte · 04/03/2023 11:23

NoSquirrels · 04/03/2023 09:10

If they have a medical room, that’s staffed, and she and her group of friends were told where it is, then is it different to a school or education establishment holding the epi pens in their medical room?

A school is for kids, a nightclub is for adults. An adult is perfectly able tolook after their epipen.

Why on earth was she even searched?

SoShallINever · 04/03/2023 11:23

Targetted · 04/03/2023 11:01

No but tampered with Epipens are being used to "spike" with other drugs

Show quote history

Do you have evidence for this statement?

Even if this is true, the person who needs punishing for this criminal offence is the criminal.
Not the people who need to carry an epipen legitimately.

Targetted · 04/03/2023 11:29

SoShallINever · 04/03/2023 11:23

Do you have evidence for this statement?

Even if this is true, the person who needs punishing for this criminal offence is the criminal.
Not the people who need to carry an epipen legitimately.

Show quote history

No one's punishing them. This club have made a misguided attempt to keep everyone safe, that needs discussing with them and resolving.

Xol · 04/03/2023 11:31

There we’re a number of reports I found alluding to modified Epi-pens being used for harm: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10290183/amp/Young-women-Newcastle-alleged-needle-spiking-attacks-busy-nightclubs.html

But, yet again, there is nothing in that report indicating that a modified Epipen actually was used - it's just speculation by someone who hasn't seen the person in question or checked the bruise marks she had.

Epipens need to be administered intra-muscularly, which means they need a long, tough needle. The usual length is 15.2 mm, i.e. over 1.5 centimetres. It's not really likely to be the spiker's choice, because the victim is going to know immediately if something like that is stuck in them.

Simonjt · 04/03/2023 11:32

Targetted · 04/03/2023 11:29

No one's punishing them. This club have made a misguided attempt to keep everyone safe, that needs discussing with them and resolving.

Show quote history

Discrimination is punishment, denying someone life saving medication isn’t keeping anyone safe.

Coraline353 · 04/03/2023 11:32

Rainbowshit · 04/03/2023 11:19

Whenever my DC have used their epipen they've ended up with bruising. It needs a bit of force. If you've been injected by an epipen you bloody well will know about it immediately.

Show quote history

Completely! They're massive needles and really push in with force

Targetted · 04/03/2023 11:33

There doesn't appear to be any advice to clubs. There's been lots of publicity of and criticism of them when there have been spiking incidents, so it's understandable that they've taken knee jerk action. Maybe Anaphylaxis UK (or someone?) could work with the industry to create a policy that protects everyone?

Simonjt · 04/03/2023 11:34

Coraline353 · 04/03/2023 11:32

Completely! They're massive needles and really push in with force

Show quote history

Yep, plus you need firm and consistent contact for a good 10-15 seconds to administer, how many people after being hit with force stay completely still while their attacker isn’t knocked my anyone either.

Untitledsquatboulder · 04/03/2023 11:34

Targetted · 04/03/2023 11:01

No but tampered with Epipens are being used to "spike" with other drugs

Show quote history

Can you supply a link for this?

Targetted · 04/03/2023 11:34

Whenever my DC have used their epipen they've ended up with bruising. It needs a bit of force. If you've been injected by an epipen you bloody well will know about it immediately.

Yes and that is what these victims have reported. The "benefit" to the criminal is that it's quick.

Targetted · 04/03/2023 11:36

Untitledsquatboulder · 04/03/2023 11:34

Can you supply a link for this?

Show quote history

Yes I did.

Obviously, as I have also already said, people who need them must have their epipens. There needs to be away of protecting people (women) from attack too.

Xol · 04/03/2023 11:37

GrinAndVomit · 04/03/2023 11:18

No. I’m not confused.
The daughter is an adult who told her mum not to get involved.
I believe her mum should respect that boundary.
I don’t think you can teach someone to stand up for themself by completely disregarding what they’ve told you and acting on their behalf.
Discuss it. Try to put your point across. Labour why this is very important. Don’t just stampede ahead against their wishes.
I’m fine with the fact that other people disagree with me on that.

Show quote history

OP is fully entitled to get involved on her own behalf, as a person with a legitimate concern that this club is operating a very dangerous policy that could kill someone at any time. She doesn't need her daughter's permission. If her daughter wants to complain also, based on her own personal experience, that's up to her. What if OP keeps quiet and next week someone dies at this nightclub as a direct result of this policy?

If you heard from your child that, say, a nightclub was in the habit of locking its fire doors, would you feel that you had to keep quiet because your child told you to? Or might you feel that you had a wider responsibility?

Rainbowshit · 04/03/2023 11:37

Targetted · 04/03/2023 11:34

Whenever my DC have used their epipen they've ended up with bruising. It needs a bit of force. If you've been injected by an epipen you bloody well will know about it immediately.

Yes and that is what these victims have reported. The "benefit" to the criminal is that it's quick.

Tell me you've never administered an epipen without telling me.

It needs to be held against the leg for a decent amount of time. It's not quick in that you jab and that's it done.

What's being reported is people's mistaken ideas of what they think epipen administration is like.

Cocobutt · 04/03/2023 11:38

Is there? Have you any links to that?

Yes it is very common and it’s just the equivalent of drink spiking.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/needle-spiking-nightclubs-women-injections-b1942724.html?amp

This link says 12 women were injected in less than a month.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health/mum-spiked-epipen-type-injection-25480641.amp

One woman’s account.

There are loads of them if you Google it.

I remember reading that most people think they’re drunk and once it’s effects have rubbed off enough to realise what actually happened it’s hard to detect in their bloodstream.

Coraline353 · 04/03/2023 11:38

Targetted · 04/03/2023 11:33

There doesn't appear to be any advice to clubs. There's been lots of publicity of and criticism of them when there have been spiking incidents, so it's understandable that they've taken knee jerk action. Maybe Anaphylaxis UK (or someone?) could work with the industry to create a policy that protects everyone?

What will a 'policy' do. It's already against the law to do this but arseholes find a way. We didn't need a policy. We need fewer criminals and arseholes.

Simonjt · 04/03/2023 11:38

Targetted · 04/03/2023 11:34

Whenever my DC have used their epipen they've ended up with bruising. It needs a bit of force. If you've been injected by an epipen you bloody well will know about it immediately.

Yes and that is what these victims have reported. The "benefit" to the criminal is that it's quick.

auto-injectors are not quick, you need very firm and consistent pressure for 10-15 seconds, so not only does the victim need to remain perfectly still, the person using it needs to not only not he knocked by someone else in the club, they need to maintain heavy pressure on the person without them falling over etc. The needle is also both long and quite wide/broad, so they’re very painful, it isn’t a short shap scratch, its distinct and continuous pain.

Cocobutt · 04/03/2023 11:38

I’m not saying what the club did was right but I understand why they’re trying to stop women getting spiked and raped.