Page 13 | Nightclub took DDs epipens

Dobbyismyabsolutefav · 04/03/2023 15:27

I'm with @1Wanda1 and @GeekyThings My DD is at uni 200+ miles away and whilst she can deal with the majority of adult issues some she would need some guidance on and this would be one.

I would help your DD complain to the club directly and ask for them to clarify their policy. Then I would speak to the council.

My DD's housemate has an epi pen and he doesn't leave home without it and I'm assuming that includes clubs too.

Is this a uni town OP? Are you happy to share the city?

minksss · 04/03/2023 15:35

@anaphyl4xis given undergrad halls etc are in loco parentis, I think pastoral staff might also be interested as this is something that is likely to impact many students

doodleallday · 04/03/2023 15:46

This sounds like our local Pryzm, an absolutely awful place! I hope you get somewhere and definitely involve the licensing committee as they may well be waiting for the final complaint in order to not renew the license.

ZeldaB · 04/03/2023 15:52

anaphyl4xis · 04/03/2023 09:04

I was more interested in whether it was would be an over reaction to really push for their rules to be changed and for an apology wrt to their approach, than whether it should be me or her that actually takes it forward.

But, at 18 I'd have been less likely to push this kind of thing and this isn't the same as complaining about poor service in McDonald's - so if she doesn't want to I will.

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Definitely raise it with the nightclub, and point out that if someone dies in their club because their epipens had been taken too far away, they’ll be looking at paying millions of pounds in compensation…

That said I personally have no idea what an epipen looks like or how to tell the difference between a genuine epipen and something put together by criminals to drug clubbera and then rob/rape, so I can appreciate why they’re cautious.

notthishill · 04/03/2023 15:53

minksss · 04/03/2023 15:24

I think unless you're someone familiar with anyphylaxis and the laws surrounding allergy you can't make sweeping statements like this

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I am familiar with anaphylaxis and the laws surrounding allergies.

I am allergic to everything the OP's DD is and then some, and I'm an epipen carrier myself.

I would feel uncomfortable being separated from my epipen in a restaurant that put my allergens in every other dish, as the risk of exposure would be higher than usual. In a nightclub? The odds of me consuming an allergen would be low.

The odds of some tosser trying to spike a woman would however be quite high, so I'd be happy to stash my epipens in a secure location to help reduce the odds of some bloke smuggling in an injector with date rape drugs in it and claiming it was for an allergy.

Rainbowshit · 04/03/2023 15:58

@notthishill good for you. It's not just about you though.

What about people with exercise induced anaphylaxis? What if a nut allergy sufferer snogs someone who has eaten peanuts earlier that day?

What if an egg allergy sufferer doesn't realise some cocktails have egg in?

The advice to keep your epipens on you at all times and not stashed in a location that you don't have control over access to is given for a VERY good reason.

Simonjt · 04/03/2023 16:02

notthishill · 04/03/2023 15:12

I wouldn't get too worked up over storing epipens in a dedicated medical room staffed by a licensed medical practitioner unless there's a major drip feed and the club was gigantic, and the medical room was nowhere near where the OP's DD would be at any one time.

An epipen is a huge needle. I can understand why bouncers at a nightclub might feel uncomfortable with people walking around carrying huge needles and want to stash them in a medical room.

However, as the OP's DD did not feel comfortable with this policy, I think the club should have refunded entry for her mates and given them the option of all going somewhere else together.

You wouldn’t get worked up that someone in a noisy, dark room full of strangers is about to stop being able to breathe with no way of accessing life saving medication? Have you ever suffered anaphylaxis? I have, there is no way anyone is seperating me from my epipen, there is also no one some stupid licensed medical practioner is going anywhere near it either.

If a bouncer is scared of a needle they need to get a grip and stop being such a pathetic little baby.

Why are so many people so keen to take vital life saving medication from people?

WiddlinDiddlin · 04/03/2023 16:03

I can't see how any 'auto injector' type device can be used to spike people - they're too big, they take too long.

Diabetic devices - more subtle however the needles that fit on the pens (pictured) are so fine that you would not stand a chance of jabbing someone moving, through clothing with any degree of accuracy and they would still need to stay still. Those needles bend very easily (I have bent my own numerous times, stabbing myself whilst remaining still, and obviously not through clothing). You COULD stab someone with a needle that fine and them barely notice or even not notice, depending on how pissed they were and how distracted.

So all that remains would be proper syringes and needles and the longer, heavier gauge needles again can bend and would be felt, and the person needs to remain still whilst the contents is injected.

I would think an ID poster of the various legit pens/needles and what they look like when opened up/taken out of their protective tubes etc, would be sufficient to prove these devices are what they say they are, and they can then be left with the person carrying them.

Unless clubs are patting down people (it is a long time since I went to a club, maybe they do!) on entry, they're not going to find the adapted dodgy devices anyway.

I would certainly complain about having my stuff taken off me in a club and about being denied access due to needing to carry medical stuff.

Simonjt · 04/03/2023 16:04

Rainbowshit · 04/03/2023 15:58

@notthishill good for you. It's not just about you though.

What about people with exercise induced anaphylaxis? What if a nut allergy sufferer snogs someone who has eaten peanuts earlier that day?

What if an egg allergy sufferer doesn't realise some cocktails have egg in?

The advice to keep your epipens on you at all times and not stashed in a location that you don't have control over access to is given for a VERY good reason.

Yep, just because they happily put their life at risk doesn’t mean they should force that on others.

notthishill · 04/03/2023 16:06

Simonjt · 04/03/2023 16:02

You wouldn’t get worked up that someone in a noisy, dark room full of strangers is about to stop being able to breathe with no way of accessing life saving medication? Have you ever suffered anaphylaxis? I have, there is no way anyone is seperating me from my epipen, there is also no one some stupid licensed medical practioner is going anywhere near it either.

If a bouncer is scared of a needle they need to get a grip and stop being such a pathetic little baby.

Why are so many people so keen to take vital life saving medication from people?

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Yes, I have suffered anaphylaxis on multiple occasions and nearly died. Not entirely sure what point you're trying to make - anaphylaxis isn't exactly uncommon. Many other people have life-threatening allergies too.

I risk assess every situation, and I wouldn't be separated from my epipen if I thought the odds of needing it were high, but if I thought the odds of needing it were low, I would be happy to be in close proximity, but not to actually hold it on my person.

notthishill · 04/03/2023 16:11

Rainbowshit · 04/03/2023 15:58

@notthishill good for you. It's not just about you though.

What about people with exercise induced anaphylaxis? What if a nut allergy sufferer snogs someone who has eaten peanuts earlier that day?

What if an egg allergy sufferer doesn't realise some cocktails have egg in?

The advice to keep your epipens on you at all times and not stashed in a location that you don't have control over access to is given for a VERY good reason.

Where did I say it was about me? It's about the other women in the club who are much more at risk of being attacked by a man trying to drug them. If it's easier to minimise that risk by effectively banning all needles coming in, I can understand that.

Anyone with life-threatening allergies wouldn't order a random cocktail without checking the ingredients. If in any doubt, they'd order a standard drink they knew they weren't allergic to.

People with serious allergies tend to automatically adjust their behaviour to minimise their risk of exposure. It's how we live this long.

Rainbowshit · 04/03/2023 16:15

Where did I say it was about me? It's about the other women in the club who are much more at risk of being attacked by a man trying to drug them. If it's easier to minimise that risk by effectively banning all needles coming in, I can understand that.

Sorry but the risk of someone dying should take precedence over the risk of being spiked. Have you got stats to show that someone is more at risk of being spiked than having an anaphylactic reaction?

Anyone with life-threatening allergies wouldn't order a random cocktail without checking the ingredients. If in any doubt, they'd order a standard drink they knew they weren't allergic to.

Have you never had someone serving you food or drink making a mistake? It will be so much harder to communicate your allergy to bar staff in a crowded noisy venue.

People with serious allergies tend to automatically adjust their behaviour to minimise their risk of exposure. It's how we live this long.

People with serious allergies would actually follow advice and not allow their epipens to be stored away from them in a place they do not controlled access to.

Rainbowshit · 04/03/2023 16:18

Also it's not uncommon for people to be exposed to their allergen hours earlier and then when they start exercising to then go into anaphylaxis. It's not always about what you are exposed to there and then.

You'd be off your head to allow someone to take your epipen from you.

Newstartonwards · 04/03/2023 16:27

anaphyl4xis · 04/03/2023 08:56

My DD - 18 and a 1st year uni student - went to a nightclub last night and they refused to let her keep her epipens on her. They said if she needed them
She had to go to the medical room.

She was with a group of friends and had all paid to get in and the venue also refused to refund if they decided not to go in.

AIBU to be absolutely livid and to follow this up with the company.

For context my daughter has a life threatening allergy to nuts - but not peanuts.

It is discrimination and I have two with me at all times. I have two unlocked on my desk at work, two with our nurses and two in a pencil I take everywhere.

you do not allow others to store them - I’ve got minutes maximum not 10 minutes waiting for someone to find them. I have a letter allowing them to go on a plane etc through security with me

they need educating about anaphylaxis - send them a letter and some medical advice

you don’t take an inhaler from an asthmatic

notthishill · 04/03/2023 16:28

Rainbowshit · 04/03/2023 16:15

Where did I say it was about me? It's about the other women in the club who are much more at risk of being attacked by a man trying to drug them. If it's easier to minimise that risk by effectively banning all needles coming in, I can understand that.

Sorry but the risk of someone dying should take precedence over the risk of being spiked. Have you got stats to show that someone is more at risk of being spiked than having an anaphylactic reaction?

Anyone with life-threatening allergies wouldn't order a random cocktail without checking the ingredients. If in any doubt, they'd order a standard drink they knew they weren't allergic to.

Have you never had someone serving you food or drink making a mistake? It will be so much harder to communicate your allergy to bar staff in a crowded noisy venue.

People with serious allergies tend to automatically adjust their behaviour to minimise their risk of exposure. It's how we live this long.

People with serious allergies would actually follow advice and not allow their epipens to be stored away from them in a place they do not controlled access to.

Well, have you got stats? I could ask you the same question.

If you are treated promptly and correctly for anaphylaxis, it doesn't take long to mentally or physically recover from.

Being spiked and raped? Some women never get over it. Thankfully, I've never been in that position, but I do have friends who have been, and that's why I would accept slightly increasing my personal risk to keep other women safe.

I don't order complicated drinks in busy bars or clubs. I order something that can be made quickly and that I know won't kill me. I wasn't aware people ate food in clubs; perhaps that has passed me by.

Consider me off my head then. I would fight you to keep control of my epipen on a plane. In a club? Not so much.

Ahsoka2001 · 04/03/2023 16:29

What's the club? Name and shame OP!

Rainbowshit · 04/03/2023 16:34

FFS How exactly are are they going to get treated promptly for anaphylaxis if their epipen is locked away in a medical room? That's the WHOLE BLOODY POINT of having them in you at all times. So there is NO delay in administering. Otherwise your chances of dying or brain damage are far higher.

Plenty of people spend weeks in hospital after anaphylaxis. And plenty suffer from PTSD after anaphylaxis and need extensive counselling.

The point,which you seem to have missed, was not that people are eating in a club bit that something they ate hours earlier which did not cause any issue at the time could still result in exercise induced anaphylaxis once they start dancing. It's unpredictable which is why epipens should be on your person at all times.

There is no good reason to take someone's epipens. None at all.

And p.s. it's those making wild claims that should produce the stats to back them up.

ThreeblackCats · 04/03/2023 16:34

I’d not bother to go into a club that put its rules above my life.

Who made your daughter go into this club?

Is she big enough to understand that she could have said “no! You guys go…I’m heading home because not dying “ a bit more important than the £15 she prepaid or is she a child genius that shouldn’t be out clubbing without a care giver?

Iyjd · 04/03/2023 16:44

ThreeblackCats · 04/03/2023 16:34

I’d not bother to go into a club that put its rules above my life.

Who made your daughter go into this club?

Is she big enough to understand that she could have said “no! You guys go…I’m heading home because not dying “ a bit more important than the £15 she prepaid or is she a child genius that shouldn’t be out clubbing without a care giver?

Or she’s a teenager that wants to fit in and have fun with her friends. Teenagers take risks because they are still learning. Also at that age £15 is a lot of money for a ticket that would go to waste.

Somanyquestionstoaskaboutthis · 04/03/2023 17:20

doodleallday · 04/03/2023 15:46

This sounds like our local Pryzm, an absolutely awful place! I hope you get somewhere and definitely involve the licensing committee as they may well be waiting for the final complaint in order to not renew the license.

Our Pryzm has regular spiking incidents, my dd won’t go any more

BlueThursday · 04/03/2023 17:28

I go to clubs here in the uk and Europe and not once have I had my pens taken from me.

it’s not the norm and I’d be very on edge not to have them with me

im at the age where I’d happily cause a fuss or indeed just tell them to shove it but being a teenager it can be hard to find your voice

Untitledsquatboulder · 04/03/2023 17:40

@notthishill the point you are missing is that confiscating epipens in no way makes any woman less at risk of a) being spiked and b) being raped. It might make you feel safer to know that a club has such a policy (well unless you carry an epipen of course) but it achieves nothing.

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 17:54

notthishill · 04/03/2023 15:12

I wouldn't get too worked up over storing epipens in a dedicated medical room staffed by a licensed medical practitioner unless there's a major drip feed and the club was gigantic, and the medical room was nowhere near where the OP's DD would be at any one time.

An epipen is a huge needle. I can understand why bouncers at a nightclub might feel uncomfortable with people walking around carrying huge needles and want to stash them in a medical room.

However, as the OP's DD did not feel comfortable with this policy, I think the club should have refunded entry for her mates and given them the option of all going somewhere else together.

What you should get worked up about, however, is the fact that the club are in breach of a law created so that disabled and vulnerable people could enjoy the same quality of life as everyone else. And the club are openly contravening the Act. And from what the OP said about the so called ‘paramedic’ at the club, I would take it with a pinch of salt that they were such, as no qualified paramedic I know of would advocate that someone with a life threatening allergy be separated from their medication - especially in a chaotic night club environment. And refusing entry for declining to hand over the medication is discrimination. Pure and simple.

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 17:58

ThreeblackCats · 04/03/2023 16:34

I’d not bother to go into a club that put its rules above my life.

Who made your daughter go into this club?

Is she big enough to understand that she could have said “no! You guys go…I’m heading home because not dying “ a bit more important than the £15 she prepaid or is she a child genius that shouldn’t be out clubbing without a care giver?

or is she a child genius that shouldn’t be out clubbing without a care giver?

And what’s that supposed to mean ?

Another poster failing completely to grasp the fact that none of the clubs actions were legal. It’s discrimination against someone with a medical condition and it’s against the law. Why should she be refused entry into a facility she’d paid to go to for refusing to hand over life saving medicine ?

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 18:01

Newstartonwards · 04/03/2023 16:27

It is discrimination and I have two with me at all times. I have two unlocked on my desk at work, two with our nurses and two in a pencil I take everywhere.

you do not allow others to store them - I’ve got minutes maximum not 10 minutes waiting for someone to find them. I have a letter allowing them to go on a plane etc through security with me

they need educating about anaphylaxis - send them a letter and some medical advice

you don’t take an inhaler from an asthmatic

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you don’t take an inhaler from an asthmatic

This club probably would. I’ve been with a diabetic friend who was refused entry to a night club unless she handed over her insulin. Lot of people on this thread failing to appreciate that the clubs’ actions amount to disability discrimination.