Page 10 | Nightclub took DDs epipens

anaphyl4xis · 2023-03-04T08:56:47+00:00

My DD - 18 and a 1st year uni student - went to a nightclub last night and they refused to let her keep her epipens on her. They said if she needed them She had to go to the medical room. She was with a group of friends and had all paid to get in and the venue also refused to refund if they decided not to go in. AIBU to be absolutely livid and to follow this up with the company. For context my daughter has a life threatening allergy to nuts - but not peanuts.

whatausername · 04/03/2023 12:17

GeekyThings · 04/03/2023 09:10

Of course you should complain, how is this even a question? I'd be complaining on two grounds, first that they took the EpiPens off her, and second that they refused to refund her when they failed to provide the service she paid for because they took the EpiPens off her!

I would call and ask for the manager, making it clear that I was making a formal complaint. My demands for the outcome would be an unreserved apology from them, and guarantees that they would be retraining their staff to make sure this didn't happen in future. If and if they weren't willing to do this then I would be approaching the local council because it may that they could lose their licence over this as it's a failure to provide a minimum duty of care to their customers.

I wouldn't leave it to my 18 year old to make the complaint, although I would involve them through the whole process so they can see how to handle it when they're a little older.

I came on to say all of this. And yes get involved, Not to be dismissive of what experience and abilities they do have, but 18yr olds not a lot of life experience and may not be as adept at following through with a complaint and pushing where necessary.

whatausername · 04/03/2023 12:19

Also, "go to the medical room". Really. Realise something is wrong, alert your mates in a club_, find out where the room is, get there, communicate the problem, who you are and request and take your Epipens, all whilst your body is going into distributive shock... are they downright stupid??

Nanny0gg · 04/03/2023 12:25

anaphyl4xis · 04/03/2023 09:51

Urgh I wasn't asking for parenting advice. My daughter is self sufficient and capable but she is also 18, utterly embarrassed by her allergy and unlikely to do anything about this and it's a huge issue for anyone with a life threatening allergy that needs epi pens. And she's my daughter so it matters to me.

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I agree with you OP. What's the harm? It's not as if it will embarrass your daughter and it could save someone's life.

I'd definitely contact the council too.

momager1 · 04/03/2023 12:26

I own a restaurant. I also carry an epi for a severe bee sting allergy. I have 3 epi pens at all times in our restaurant. BUT for food allergies, I totally understand peoples fear of restaurants. Lets face it. So many people say they have allergies (mostly when wanting to modify a meal) and then the server sees them eating something of the other plate... or a classic.. Severe allergy to gluten. change everything on plate for her, to see her dig in to her husbands cake after! So I put a button on our computer that simply says allergy alert. then the server writes in the modification what the allergen is. not going to lie.. there is alot of eyerolling. It upsets me as I need an epi and know that there are people with true allergies , too many people say they are allergic when what they really mean is "I don't like" If anyone ever tried to take my epi, i would vote with my feet and walk away, then complain .

Cocobutt · 04/03/2023 12:26

Let's substitute 'autoinjectors' for the brand name Epipen. People here, including you, are arguing that some.kind.of autoinjector or something that LOOKS like an autoinjector is being used. But there's no proof for that beyond people believing they're quick and easy and therefore it must have been an autoinjector. But they're not, and can't be proven they were used. Therefore no reason to prevent people carrying adrenaline autoinjectors

So all of these women, police officers and doctors are lying about being injected?

Smurf123 · 04/03/2023 12:27

@anaphyl4xis definitely not unreasonable to complain about the policy.
As an aside someone mentioned about the prescription label and it being on the box- I normally peel label from box and place it directly on my kids inhalers instead - normally easily done if done when first received and means they don't get mixed up with others- could also work in terms of proving it is your daughters if there's space to do it without covering the epi pen instructions

Coraline353 · 04/03/2023 12:32

Cocobutt · 04/03/2023 12:26

Let's substitute 'autoinjectors' for the brand name Epipen. People here, including you, are arguing that some.kind.of autoinjector or something that LOOKS like an autoinjector is being used. But there's no proof for that beyond people believing they're quick and easy and therefore it must have been an autoinjector. But they're not, and can't be proven they were used. Therefore no reason to prevent people carrying adrenaline autoinjectors

So all of these women, police officers and doctors are lying about being injected?

No. But there's no proof they were autoinjectors. And if you were familiar with them you'd know why it's unlike, for reasons that have been outlined several times on this thread. It's actually more likely that they were regular syringes, if the people didn't notice them or only felt a small needle prick.

But once a narrative of 'i believe they were EpiPen like devices' gets out it's hard to challenge.
And for the record, I haven't seen any police quotes saying that's what they were. Just victim quotes from people who believe it but don't know anything about the realities of them

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 12:37

NoSquirrels · 04/03/2023 09:10

If they have a medical room, that’s staffed, and she and her group of friends were told where it is, then is it different to a school or education establishment holding the epi pens in their medical room?

Very different, yes. A nightclub is a chaotic environment and the time taken to find your way to the medical room, find someone to attend and get the pens could end in tragedy if the allergy is severe. I’ve also come across a similar instance where bouncers tried to confiscate insulin from my friend in similar circumstances. Refusal of entry into the club unless the material is handed over is disability discrimination, and the club should be making ‘reasonable adjustment’ to whatever their door policy was, to allow the person to keep life saving medication on them, and to comply with the law.

OP, I would make a formal complaint and quote the Equality Act 2010. You want a written apology and an assurance that their door policy will be revised to allow essential medication to stay with the person, and that door staff are properly trained and aware of the law.

May09Bump · 04/03/2023 12:42

Definitely complain to management, trading standards and whatever department in the council that deals with discrimination. It's hard when they're adults, but I would restate she needed to walk away and lose the money in this situation. Obviously try and reclaim money later - but not having Epipens on her could have been catastrophic.

Also in a school situation - in primary it was held in main classroom by their teacher and took to any additional classrooms, with an further one in the office. In secondary, they hold one in the office and has a set of two on person as they move classrooms. We've never had Epipens just in the office, as even minute delay can cause a different outcome.

billy1966 · 04/03/2023 12:46

Absolutely complain formally.

Ignore the moronic parenting advice🙄that at 18 she should be fully independent.

Completely moronic advice.

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 12:48

Brefugee · 04/03/2023 11:39

your DD needs to check if they have warnings about this before the point they had to pay. then she needs to take it up with the nightclub - in particular she needs to ask them what their process is for someone who suddenly needs the epi pen, she should ask to see their risk assessment documentation.

And als warn the uni to tell other students that this may happen if they go to this particular nightclub.

No. The night club and any other establishment operating this policy is in breach of the law. The Equality Act 2010 gives a clear, legal framework to protect the rights of individuals and to provide the UK with a discrimination law which protects individuals from unfair treatment and to promote a fair and equal society.

It’s not a question of whether the club has warning signs of any kind. Their policy breaches the Act, both in confiscating medication from someone with a life threatening condition, and in refusing entry if that person doesn’t comply. It should not be happening at all.

GrinAndVomit · 04/03/2023 12:48

billy1966 · 04/03/2023 12:46

Absolutely complain formally.

Ignore the moronic parenting advice🙄that at 18 she should be fully independent.

Completely moronic advice.

Oh for god’s sake.

It is not moronic to listen to your adult child and respect their decision.

The daughter has not asked for support in the matter and she has asked her mum to not get involved.

Not a single person on here has said “if she asks for your support then don’t because she’s an adult…”
We’ve said, listen to her, converse with her and respect her wishes.

shrodingersvaccine · 04/03/2023 12:49

I am a mid 30s anaphylactic and trust me, you know when you've been jabbed with an epi pen - it's not a small pin prick. It bloody hammers the needle into your muscle and has to be held there for 15 seconds - it hurts like f*ck and leaves a bruise about an inch wide. There is, unequivocally, zero risk of someone not feeling it or it being used nefariously without their victim noticing.

The club should not have removed her epipens - they are life saving medical equipment. If I am exposed to one of my allergens there's no way I'd have the time, or the wherewithal as my blood pressure plummets and throat closes up, to get through a crowded club to a medical room, and to explain who I am and what I need (and how were they going to keep track of the pens and who they belong to?). Mine have never been held by a school or workplace etc, I've always carried my own - as is medically advised.

The issue here is exacerbated by the club refusing a refund - they created an unsafe medical situation for her. Definitely support her in a complaint and I'd complain to whoever issued the licence for the event too, and whoever was in charge of the paramedic (St Johns?) who should have known not to take them off her. Unsafe all round!

Totally understandable you helping her with this/leading her in the complaint - she's 18 and away from home for assumedly the first time. She's still learning how to be an adult. God help the 18 year olds apparently lobbed out with no further parental input! I'm 37 now and I have the opposite problem - I have to remind my mother it's my allergy and that I'll manage it and she needs to back off!

Justmeandthedog1 · 04/03/2023 12:49

the safety aspect of not having epipens on you is the most important point.
I’d also be concerned about getting my own epipens back and knowing they’d not been tampered with.

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 12:53

Cocobutt · 04/03/2023 11:42

I think some posters are missing the point by saying that the epipens need to be used forcefully and held down for a long time etc.

The spikers aren’t actually using epipens.

The drug inside is different and probably the needle but the outer casing just looks like an epipen.
So it is disguised as an epipen and a bouncer probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.

I would hope that you can get some sort of proof so you can keep it on you.

All they had to do was look at the label. I have an epipen - Metaject, for injecting methotrexate for rheumatoid arthritis. The pens are pre loaded single use, and clearly labelled with the drug, date, and dispensing pharmacy.

WeWereInParis · 04/03/2023 12:55

Why on earth was she even searched?

Not uncommon at all for clubs to have a look in people's bags on the way in, and I don't think that's unreasonable. Obviously taking the epipen isn't ok.

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 12:56

shrodingersvaccine · 04/03/2023 12:49

I am a mid 30s anaphylactic and trust me, you know when you've been jabbed with an epi pen - it's not a small pin prick. It bloody hammers the needle into your muscle and has to be held there for 15 seconds - it hurts like f*ck and leaves a bruise about an inch wide. There is, unequivocally, zero risk of someone not feeling it or it being used nefariously without their victim noticing.

The club should not have removed her epipens - they are life saving medical equipment. If I am exposed to one of my allergens there's no way I'd have the time, or the wherewithal as my blood pressure plummets and throat closes up, to get through a crowded club to a medical room, and to explain who I am and what I need (and how were they going to keep track of the pens and who they belong to?). Mine have never been held by a school or workplace etc, I've always carried my own - as is medically advised.

The issue here is exacerbated by the club refusing a refund - they created an unsafe medical situation for her. Definitely support her in a complaint and I'd complain to whoever issued the licence for the event too, and whoever was in charge of the paramedic (St Johns?) who should have known not to take them off her. Unsafe all round!

Totally understandable you helping her with this/leading her in the complaint - she's 18 and away from home for assumedly the first time. She's still learning how to be an adult. God help the 18 year olds apparently lobbed out with no further parental input! I'm 37 now and I have the opposite problem - I have to remind my mother it's my allergy and that I'll manage it and she needs to back off!

Yep. I use a Metaject pen and you have to place it firmly on the skin and press down then count to ten. You definitely know you’ve been injected.

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 12:58

GrinAndVomit · 04/03/2023 12:48

Oh for god’s sake.

It is not moronic to listen to your adult child and respect their decision.

The daughter has not asked for support in the matter and she has asked her mum to not get involved.

Not a single person on here has said “if she asks for your support then don’t because she’s an adult…”
We’ve said, listen to her, converse with her and respect her wishes.

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But on the other hand, if she doesn’t complain, the club will carry on with its’ illegal policy and ultimately it will probably take a tragedy to get it stopped.

RufustheSpeculatingreindeer · 04/03/2023 13:00

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 12:58

But on the other hand, if she doesn’t complain, the club will carry on with its’ illegal policy and ultimately it will probably take a tragedy to get it stopped.

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Yes absolutely

id probably feel i had to complain to the nightclub anyway. Even if it was just a heads up to get them to look at their policy with no name given

GrinAndVomit · 04/03/2023 13:07

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 12:58

But on the other hand, if she doesn’t complain, the club will carry on with its’ illegal policy and ultimately it will probably take a tragedy to get it stopped.

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I’m fine with people politely disagreeing.
You make a valid point. The difference would be that I’d only encourage my daughter to complain and make these points to her.
Being called a moron or implying we’re stupid or any other of the rude responses I’ve had on here because I’m mindful of an adult’s boundaries are just not on.

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 13:08

GrinAndVomit · 04/03/2023 11:18

No. I’m not confused.
The daughter is an adult who told her mum not to get involved.
I believe her mum should respect that boundary.
I don’t think you can teach someone to stand up for themself by completely disregarding what they’ve told you and acting on their behalf.
Discuss it. Try to put your point across. Labour why this is very important. Don’t just stampede ahead against their wishes.
I’m fine with the fact that other people disagree with me on that.

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Are you fine with the fact that the club are acting unlawfully ? And that if the OP doesn’t complain or take some sort of action they will continue to act unlawfully and it will probably take a tragedy before they stop ?

GrinAndVomit · 04/03/2023 13:12

Rosscameasdoody · 04/03/2023 13:08

Are you fine with the fact that the club are acting unlawfully ? And that if the OP doesn’t complain or take some sort of action they will continue to act unlawfully and it will probably take a tragedy before they stop ?

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Have I defended the club’s stance at any point on this thread?

Original poster

anaphyl4xis · 04/03/2023 13:25

@grinandvomit - where did I say that my DD has asked me not to get involved?

Stop making things up!

OP posts:

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 04/03/2023 13:32

Targetted · 04/03/2023 10:32

You can't drug someone else with a hearing aid. People carrying controlled drugs do need to be able to prove they have them legitimately.

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Epipens are not medical devices, they are medicines. Adrenaline is not a controlled drug.

GrinAndVomit · 04/03/2023 13:33

anaphyl4xis · 04/03/2023 13:25

@grinandvomit - where did I say that my DD has asked me not to get involved?

Stop making things up!

Oh so she has asked for your help in navigating this?
If so, I apologise. Of course you should.