To ask you too attend a candlelight vigil tomorrow evening in Edinburgh, Bristol or London

[Sophforthe100]

.. for the 100 students every year who take their own lives every year.

The law needs to change so that Universities have a duty of care to their students.

Fine out more: www.forthe100.org.uk/vigil

I'm a very regular Mumsnetter who has name-changed to post this.

I think this is part of the problem. University counselling services are having to deal with students with significant mental illness and they’re not equipped or resourced for it. Counsellors are not psychiatrists.

It’s being pushed onto universities because students struggle to access appropriate NHS mental health treatment. I’m afraid I don’t think the answer is for a duty of care (if you’re referring to mental health treatment OP) to be transferred onto universities.

I did listen to the case of the student whose Mum gave the R4 interview. It was really sad but I thought 6 counselling sessions was a reasonable offer from the university. More indepth treatment should be provided by the NHS.

Sorry you’ve been affected by this OP.

I am a teacher. I once had counselling through my employer, and at my first session, the counsellor made it clear that if I expressed thoughts of seriously harming myself she was obliged to notify occupational health (who organised the counselling). I’m assuming that they would have notified my GP? A colleague of mine (A) who was off sick with depression, told another colleague (B) that they wanted to kill themselves. She (A) in turn told the Headteacher, who then spoke to (B) and asked for permission to contact OH. That same day, someone from OH visited B at home. I dread to think what would have happened if A had refused to give permission.

The whataboutery on this thread is sad.

I don't think we should put down any initiatives that seek to prevent suicide.

If there is a another demographic that needs support then let's support that too.

Well said, and thank you.

You're trying to make people responsible who I just don't think are responsible.

I think we should when the initiative is illogical, unfair and unlikely to work anyway.

You can’t just implement anything because it ‘supports’ people in some way. Who else do you think should have a duty of care? Leisure centres and gyms who have customers who are clearly anorexic? Estate agents who notice a house is a hoarding health hazard but don’t report it? Coffee shop workers who have the same person come in every day crying? Where
does this ‘duty of care’ end and personal responsibility begin? Or does personal responsibility not exist any more?

The petition isn't about an initiative for suicide prevention though. It seems to be about changing the law so that universities are expected to look after students and be legally responsible for them even when not on the premises.

I'm not sure AIBU is the right place for this.

Agreed.

I think universities should definitely look at what they’re currently doing and find ways to improve their services. I mean visiting the men tel health provision once per academic year sounds atrocious.

The gov already responded to the petition explaining what duty of care is there.

The letition itself and other texts just keep talking about "duty of care" in non specific terms. For this to actually get a possibly positive responses, it has to be specific. Not "duty of care" which is VERY wide since it differs from situation to situation

Gov response
Higher Education providers do have a general duty of care to deliver educational and pastoral services to the standard of an ordinarily competent institution and, in carrying out these services, they are expected to act reasonably to protect the health, safety and welfare of their students. This can be summed up as providers owing a duty of care to not cause harm to their students through the university’s own actions.

Over the last decade, higher education providers have devoted considerable resources to their student support services, and a good deal of support is now widely provided to students who struggle with their mental health. However, tragically suicides do still occur in higher education, and investigations into the circumstances of such deaths have sometimes shown the support offered by the university was not all it might have been. We have encouraged universities to learn from such cases and redouble their prevention efforts. Former Higher Education Minister Donelan wrote to vice chancellors specifically on this subject in both July 2021 and December 2021.

We acknowledge the profound and lasting impact a young person’s suicide has upon their family and friends, and know among the petitioners there are those who have personal experience of these devastating, tragic events. While press narratives often suggest students are an at-risk population, ONS data May 2022 (www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/estimatingsuicideamonghighereducationstudentsenglandandwalesexperimentalstatistics/2017to2020) shows a significantly lower suicide rate in HE students compared with the wider population (including students) of similar age. This is supported by Figure 6 from the linked ONS publication, and the third bullet point at the top of the page. We, therefore, feel further legislation to create a statutory duty of care, where such a duty already exists, would be a disproportionate response.

Department for Education

But they're an educational institution, not a mental health facility.
Students are allowed to access the NHS directly, you know?

@Moonicorn that's spicing up your whataboutery with lashings of hyperbole

Im sorry that you have interpreted comments about infantilisation of young adults as victim blaming. I view it as fairly simple, 18 year olds are adults and whether they are at university or not is irrelevant.

If a student wants their family informed of their MH issues that is for them to manage, just like if they were living independently in a non student setting. The MH pathway in the UK is via the GP and NHS. Universities dont have a role in my view to involved in informing people unless of course they need to call an ambulance. They need to appropriately sign post of course.

You keep directing people to the experiences of others, its fairly simple though, most people on the thread dont agree with you. I think the focus and passion for this needs to be on the NHS being equipped and able to support those of us with MH issues properly.

I started the thread to raise awareness of the events happening this evening in Edinburgh, Bristol and London.

People who don't agree with the premise of the campaign do not need to attend the events, nor do they need to sign the petition.

However, so far almost 30,000 people have signed the petition - so clearly there are plenty of people who do agree that Universities should have a statutory legal duty of care for students in Higher Education.

In practice it doesn't work like that.

I did a degree recently and my university provided counselling, regular access to a mental health support worker who was a qualified psychiatric nurse, and assessments by a clinical and counselling psychologist and a consultant psychiatrist.

I was also under the local mental health services, and I was explicitly told by them that they wouldn't offer me any support or therapy, only medications, because I could get counselling and support from my university.

I understand why they'd do that — if they have limited resources available, it makes sense to allocate them to people who don't have any other option. But it means that in effect, and apart from medications, my university was my mental health service provider.

🤯
The university was your mental health service provider... I can't even begin to process that, it's too bizarre.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/622847

Well, I'm not signing...

No one is forcing you to.

Yep it's odd. The university even paid the fees for me to see a psychologist privately. Other students I knew were also receiving specialist private therapy paid for by the university. So of course the CMHT/mental health services tended to decide their resources were better used on the non-student population.

Do theses universities not have NightLine in place. Run by trained students, for students. Always someone available

Thats pretty much the standard though. If I was receiving private therapy/counselling, MH programmes then the NHS is not likely to pick me up, you cant have two therapy/counselling programmes ongoing at the same time anyway, that is not good practice. The NHS doesnt do a joint thing with private providers. I was under my GP for my MH issues during my second time at university.

Some of the responses on here are probably part of why there is still such stigma with mental health.

How so?