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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you report this? Potential benefit fraud

389 replies

Overthebow · 03/03/2023 09:35

I’m struggling with this one, on one hand I think just leave it as everyone is struggling to survive, on the other it just doesn’t sit right with me. And I’d it even benefit fraud? I don’t have much experience with benefits so not sure. I need your thoughts! here’s the situation.

A couple had a baby a few years ago. Almost straight afterwards they split up.she got a housing association property and universal credit, she doesn’t work. He lives at his mums, has a decently paid job and doesn’t claim UC. But ever since they’ve still appeared to kind of be together. He sleeps over a few times a week, they go on days out and holidays together and she talks about them as ‘we’ and ‘us’. She’s also talked about buying a house together in the future as he is able to save a decent amount.

OP posts:
woodhill · 03/03/2023 11:11

Seymour5 · 03/03/2023 11:08

A tenant in an area where I worked, rented a cheap bedsit. His partner lived with their three children in a council house. He had a good job, she claimed benefits (before UC) for herself and their children as a single parent, but also got money from her partner who more or less lived with her. Eventually she decided to go back to work, and stop claiming. He gave up the tenancy of his bedsit and moved back in permanently. He was very honest with me about why they did it. He told me when he gave up his tenancy.

It’s not a new idea, it’s not fraud, but most of us just don’t live like that. It took two wages for us to afford to support our children, it never entered our heads to pretend to separate so we could claim benefits. Some people have a different moral compass. I think you’re probably right about the couple OP, but I’d just leave it.

Yes exactly that

cashmerecow · 03/03/2023 11:11

You sound like a sad person with no friends. Hardly surprising with the post. Get a hobby and mind your own business.

GrinAndVomit · 03/03/2023 11:11

They’re definitely playing the system but they’re playing by the rules. 🤷🏻‍♀️
It might be galling but they’re not breaking any laws.
Try to remove yourself from the situation if it’s making you angry.

CitizenofMoronia · 03/03/2023 11:12

Jezzus, they could actually live under the same room and live separately and claim separately and it STILL wouldn't be fraud and definitely NONE of your business, they dont even live together, it IS possible to be in a relationship and not be co-habiting, you do know that don't you? .. still not fraud.

Bloopsie · 03/03/2023 11:13

Cocobutt · 03/03/2023 11:10

I know of a few people who claimed benefits as a single parent but actually lived with their partner who worked FT but didn’t declare it.

It pissed me off as I was an actual single parent but it so was common that I had to just ignore it.

What’s ironic is you actually get much more help if you are a 2 parent family so they are silly to themselves.

How do you get more help if you are 2 parent family? Higher council tax, defo no sure start vouchers etc

Littlefaeries · 03/03/2023 11:14

Probably is benefit fraud but wouldn’t worry me.
Years ago I had a friend whose job it was to arrive early and watch men leave the homes of women claiming benefits.
I thought it was extreme then.
When the government takes tax evasion by the rich seriously then fair enough.
In the meantime the energy companies are screwing everyone with the backing of the Tories.

LuluLehman · 03/03/2023 11:14

None of my business and none of yours either.

I can't imagine myself doing something so cruel as reporting my neighbours (except for instances of violence - which I have done). - especially as I know nothing about another person. They might just be incredibly good friends.

Overthebow · 03/03/2023 11:20

Octopusmittens · 03/03/2023 11:06

Are you jealous OP?

No. I do think it’s morally wrong though to play the system and would much rather the extra money go to carers of disabled dc, or are too unwell to work though

OP posts:
ILiveAt64ZooLane · 03/03/2023 11:20

Sounds like they don’t live together, I wouldn’t report anything.

Cocobutt · 03/03/2023 11:20

How do you get more help if you are 2 parent family? Higher council tax, defo no sure start vouchers etc

Council tax is only a 25% discount as a single parent and the vouchers are only a few pound a week.
Whereas UC goes on how many people are in your household.

All of the couples I know get more UC than I do as a single parent as they get extra money because there’s another adult.
E.g. I work FT with 1 child. And my sister works PT, her DH works FT and they’ve got 1 child so their income is higher but they still get more UC than me as I have less people in my home.

Idkrealorfake · 03/03/2023 11:22

Zone2NorthLondon · 03/03/2023 11:08

You cannot get worked up about fraud and tax evasion on an industrial scale netting millions?
why not? Tax evasion actually decreases revenue to the govt, tax that could be used for education,health ,social care
I don’t understand such passive acquiescence

"On an industrial scale"??

What hyperbole.

Unless you want to point me in the direction of the businesses specialising in helping people commit fraud?

Hmm like the accountants employed by corporations and billionaires to ensure they can game the system and avoid paying tax, netting them tens of millions EACH?

I guess it's much easier for you to punch down to those just below you, than to question the corrupt class you look up to, or perhaps aspire to join.

Kissedbyfire1 · 03/03/2023 11:24

memyselfi · 03/03/2023 09:38

What the hell is it to do with you ?
Just mind your own business.
Do people really live like this ?
Monitoring friends or neighbours for some transgression?
You've no clue what their lives are like , wish them happiness.

I think we saw throughout lockdown just how many people like to monitor others’ behaviour and look for any spurious reason to “report” transgressions of what they think the law should be, rather than what it actually is.

Cocobutt · 03/03/2023 11:25

I don’t think you should report them but it’s very obvious from some of the replies which posters also play the system.

Jujuj · 03/03/2023 11:26

No, mind your business.

IsItThough · 03/03/2023 11:27

You are allowed to have a partner/lover/significant other if you are on benefits you know, and choosing not to live together is a legitimate choice.

Lotsofthingstoconsider · 03/03/2023 11:28

idontbutido · 03/03/2023 09:38

That's not benefit fraud though. You can have a boyfriend who sleeps there a few times a week and you go on holiday together and still have a single UC claim.

I'm sorry it's not as simple as that.
Or everyone would be doing it !!

Hi Overthebow this falls into an investigation type called LTAHW. (Living together as husband and wife.

Every year parliament legislates an amount of money due to individual situations. Carers, low income, unemployed and Lone Parent the basis for this claim by the sound of it)

The payment made via UC is decided by the individual circumstances of that particular claimant. These are the conditions of entitlement.

When looking at this sort of case we have to establish the situation. A number of factors are considered. Staying over x times a week (there is no allowable number of nights where it is ok.. or not ok it depends on the individual. )

For example. If the child/children have severe medical needs where the other parent requires nighttime assistance with care . There would be nothing to prevent the ex partner/spouse from staying 7 nights per week.

What is considered following such an allegation is ;
Household income. Does the lone parent have the same money coming in to her or his household as a lone parent without the relationship type described. ?

Another example.
Mother A has separated . Ex partner has left the house hold entirely and sees the children EOW . No contact and pays CMS which is declared to UC(CMS is exempt from UC calculation) All bills, food, costs fall to Mother A. So from the legislated amount ALL her bills are from this source.

Mother B has a different relationship. They have separated geographically but the ex partner still contributes to the household. He does pay CMS but the children don't stay. He also brings groceries over 2/3 times a week when he may or may not stay the night. At weekends they go out as a family. Father pays every time or at least contributes. He pays for Sky. He pays car insurance for a car in his ex partners name.

Mother B therefore has a financial advantage and is not actually a 'lone parent' She simply has a partner who lives elsewhere. This is benefit fraud.

How many times a week he stays over is actually very low down the list.

Another major factor is 'perception' . Would your neighbours consider you a couple. ? Do your kids ? Wider family.

On the face of it this seems a pretty clear cut case of benefit fraud where this couple have contrived a situation to gain money they are not entitled to.

It is EVERYONES responsibility to protect the public purse . I would report this on the National Benefit Fraud Hotline.. or on line anonymously.

IsItThough · 03/03/2023 11:29

Overthebow · 03/03/2023 11:20

No. I do think it’s morally wrong though to play the system and would much rather the extra money go to carers of disabled dc, or are too unwell to work though

Oh god do you believe in "the deserving poor"?

callmeblondee · 03/03/2023 11:29

Does it directly impact you, no? What the hell is the world coming to when people just cant keep their noses out of others lives. Do you not have much going on yourself? Why so concerned about what other people do, its very very very odd. Get a life and be happy.

Zone2NorthLondon · 03/03/2023 11:30

@Idkrealorfake
Industrial scale absolutely industrial amounts totalling £millions. It’s fact. A perfunctory google will attest to this

Philip Green,Michelle Mone, Starbucks,Amazon, eBay, Adobe, Google, Cisco, Facebook, Microsoft, and Apple all participate in tax avoidance

latter part of your post is incomprehensible gibberish, you appear to be casting aspersions? Given I’m not a tax avoidant millionaire I really don’t feel it’s applicable

Anyway as you were

LuluLehman · 03/03/2023 11:31

Moonicorn · 03/03/2023 10:03

I always think posts like this are by people on the fiddle themselves.

Report her, if there’s nothing amiss then she won’t be in any trouble 🤷🏼‍♀️

But let’s not pretend benefit fraud is a ‘victimless’ crime or ‘not really stealing’.

No. The post is from fastidiously law-abiding people like me who try to mind their own business (even though I am by nature very nosy). The op has no idea what is really going on, if it is fraud or not.

I know of a case where someone (on the evidence of a toddlers' single innocent remark) accused her own brother of child abuse. She called the police and social services got involved. The remark was proved to be totally innocent as was the brother. However, the brother was so distraught about what he had been put through - as well as what his child had been put through - and the idea that he would remain stigmatised (because neighbours etc believe "there is no smoke without fire") that he tried to end his own life.

The OPs neighbour referring to the bloke as "we" and "us" may be referring to their role as parents, not necessarily as a couple.

If the op is so interested why doesn't she just ask them? No? Thought not.

callmeblondee · 03/03/2023 11:32

Overthebow · 03/03/2023 11:20

No. I do think it’s morally wrong though to play the system and would much rather the extra money go to carers of disabled dc, or are too unwell to work though

What a load of shit, dont be a fkng "hero" and just go about your day and get some kind of life. I just couldnt imagine being this much of a curtain twitching nosy saddo.

Snoopinator · 03/03/2023 11:32

Mind your own business, nosey parker!!

NicknameTaker · 03/03/2023 11:33

ladykale · 03/03/2023 10:38

@NicknameTaker *highly subsidised house

Same message!

I find it baffling people don't have an issue with others playing the system which means less resources for those who really need it!

So basically benefits bashing and misguided judgment and definitely a whole load of misinformation.

We all know men should pay towards their children. Some don’t.

Social housing is set up for those who are deemed to be in need, they aren’t handed out for free like a sample in a supermarket.
Most if not all people in social housing have likely gone through years of homelessness, staying in hostels, sofa surfing or living on the street and after all of that have finally been given a home.
Some live on benefits for the rest of their lives, some go to work and would likely pay monthly rent amounting upto the equivalent of a monthly mortgage.

I think the issue is there is nothing anyone can do about what you believe is fiddling the system. We do not know the in’s and out’s of everyone’s household.

Overthebow · 03/03/2023 11:33

IsItThough · 03/03/2023 11:29

Oh god do you believe in "the deserving poor"?

What is the deserving poor?

OP posts:
tattygrl · 03/03/2023 11:35

JFC get a life. Sorry, but this is ridiculous. Let the DWP worry about people on benefits, god knows they make it hard enough for any of us to get any. I'm not really sure what good you hope could come out of you sending this rather tawdry list of speculation to the DWP - her money stops? You save this government about 50p a year? Benefit fraud is a tiny, miniscule drop in the financial ocean in this country. It really isn't an issue.