Would you expect your probation to end for this?

[nCemplument]

On probation it's six months in a new position.

Work hours are eight hours.

Started at 12.30pm and left at 7.15pm so 1 hour 15 minutes early and this was after a discussion about a similar scenario to do with working hours.

Would you expect to still have a job?

Can you also say if you or anyone you know has had probation ended and if so what for - is it enough to just say the person doesn't fit the culture of the company do you think?

I think I've got the gist of it OP.
This person requested to finish early one day, having, voluntarily, worked through their lunch break.
You agreed to the one off request, but employee unilaterally decided that this was an approved way of working and has done the same again but without seeking any permission.
You spoke to them to inform them that you had agreed to a one off request to leave early - what you had not agreed to was that they could adapt this as their personal working pattern.
You've now discovered that, not only have they done this again, they actually rescheduled a client's appointment in order to facilitate their early finish.

Yes.
Terminate.

You do sound like a dreadful manager. Your communication skills are appalling as evidenced on this thread, you gave permission for them to leave early twice and then seem to be holding it against them. And two hours to go through a contract and handbook, I have honestly never come across any manager doing this ever.

Where I work it would be a case of "I need to leave early on X, would I be okay to work through my break?"

It would never be something that wasn't discussed beforehand.

I think you need to manage your staff op.

And that means dealing with consequences such as leaving early. It's been explained to them in no uncertain terms. Plus there are other issues as well.

They're not coming anywhere close to meeting the standards required. They need to be MANAGED out of the door.

Agreed. Two hours for this conversation is way OTT, and spending that long on it could almost be construed as bullying. It doesn't take two hours to say, "These are the expected working hours, please adhere to them from now on".

Yep get rid

if people can’t even be bothered to put the effort in to being a good employee during their probationary period then they certainly aren’t going to be a model employee after it has ended and their job is “safe”

Did you also make sure they got their breaks?

I dislike employers that get so angry about theft of time from employees leaving “early” (having done all of the contracted hours) but don’t give a shit about the theft of employees’ time when they’re not getting their breaks. Worked in too many places like that and he’s better off finding somewhere better to work.

How is it a safeguarding issue? Is the health, safety or welfare of a child or vulnerable adult at risk? Because that's what safeguarding is about.

when you say "end probation" i understood that you want to end it early and have a normal contract.

What you mean is fire them?

You're the boss: give them a warning, can you get HR to dock pay? is that allowed? Or just fire them. They are contracted to work X hours, not X-2 hours at their whim.

You are very unclear in your posts. You might not think it, but they are hard to follow. If your work instructions are the same I'd say ease off about the leaving early once and also make yourself more clear. It took me a while to even know what you were going on about.

@Spidey66 OK safeguarding is the wrong word, I meant duty of care. Companies may have policies in place that states workers are not to be on their own eg in a shop/bank in case of burglary, or a warehouse for health and safety reasons. By the employee leaving early, they may be in breach of those policies, leaving another colleague exposed.

It doesn't sound like that's the case now OP has provided further information.

Yet you wasted 4 (billable?) hours 2 of your and his having you and him read a document?!

I am with the others.

• Yes he sounds crap
• But you sound like a poor line manager who struggles with effective comms.

I agree with @Arebella everytime you post i have so many questions and need to read it twice. I actually assumed you were neurodiverse based on your writing style?

Re quality of staff
I work for a big tech company there is NO way any of this would happen there (Frankly both of you would be manged out...)

If you've hired someone to do a job that involves dealing with clients, but you don't trust them to be able to read their own T&Cs, you have gone badly wrong in the recruitment process...

@Wingedharpy yes, thank you!! You've hit the nail on the head and what you've said is correct 👍 you've also managed to fully get the jist of my rambling posts! I think I was just annoyed at the time so typing fast!!

Also I had a two hour meeting to go through it all so that he has NO excuse to say he wasn't told - I suppose it was covering my back (or at least I thought so) as I could tell he is the kind of person that unless explicitly told something won't get the message.

But he still clearly hasn't listened.

I would have thought my communication would be an issue if I didn't do this now posters are saying I'm not communicating well as a manager - it appears I can't win either way

OK have I got this correct. You have an employee who is still within their probationary period. Grey are employed to work the late shift from 12:30 to 20:30. There is an unpaid break (half hour?) within this shift.
Previously they had asked to leave early because WHATEVER and you said yes (and they possibly worked through their lunch). They did something similar a 2nd time without explicit permission. You gave them the benefit of the doubt but spent several hours going through the terms and conditions of their employment.
They're now left early again (on a Friday) as in their eyes they feel they've worked through their lunch break and the hours they've worked 'add up'.....
If that's correct then I say sack them, but not yet!They have either disregarded your instruction and the rules/T&Cs or they're too stupid to understand.
I'd definitely speak with HR first for advice though because although you were trying to be helpful initially it's actually illegal to work for more than 6hrs without a break. Did they get any break? If theyre ND too it could be tricky saying these are the rules but they can be flounted. Have you given them printed copies of the T&Cs and ensured they can read properly? I'd get these things in place first to keep it simple then just wait for them to mess up again....then sack them.

Hi @JudgeRudy you've got the scenario correct with the exception of I gave them permission to leave twice not once and then after the second time had the conversation with them to say stop asking to do this as it's not a thing and make time for lunch.

I explained I don't want people skipping their lunch I want them to take it and if you choose not to it doesn't permit leaving early, this was at the same time as two hour discussion going through handbook etc and explaining they should be here eight hours a day.

Then I see they left over an hour early a couple of weeks after this conversation

Also to those asking why they're missing lunch break - this person is NOT too busy trust me.

I don't treat people like children and leave them to take lunch on their own because they're adults, although starting to think otherwise.

I will also add this person has also on another day left and cancelled all meetings with clients (a full day) due to family emergency (it wasn't IMO an emergency) but did this without asking anyone's permission just left and I didn't find this out until another member of staff mentioned it.

At the time this was discussed and I advised you must inform someone when you leave but all these things are just making the person questionable it's a build up of things like this.

A one-off left early would not normally end a probationary period in my book. But if you're as obtuse in your line management style as you are in this thread, I'd wonder is anyone knows what's really expected of them. Do you measure their success in their role by hours spent on-site?

Do you want to get rid of this employee? It's a simple question. If you do, then yes make an issue of the early departure but make sure all your previous communications have been clear. If not, just have a quiet word with them about the need for this to not happen again.

This employee doesn't sound a good fit for the role. He doesn't sound like a reliable team member.

Bearing in mind you mention that you have other issues with them, I think it's time you had a meeting and either told them you won't be keeping them on, or extend the probation with clear and written down targets to meet.

I'd end their probation given the full explanation OP. They're not committed to the role or respectful of the requirements.

yes fire them they repeatedly leave early when told not to -all within the firs tmonth of working there

Also to those asking why they're missing lunch break - this person is NOT too busy trust me.

Oh yes, they’re definitely not taking a lunch break because they just love non-stop work and not eating properly. It’s definitely not the workload.

Come off it.

Yes, I think you’d be well within your rights to terminate their employment. If they’re like this during probation, how bad will they be when they hit 2 years service?!

Poor timekeeping, poor attitude, breach of contract and failure to follow a reasonable management instruction - all fair reasons to fail probation IMO