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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Would you expect your probation to end for this?

102 replies

nCemplument · 01/03/2023 21:26

On probation it's six months in a new position.

Work hours are eight hours.

Started at 12.30pm and left at 7.15pm so 1 hour 15 minutes early and this was after a discussion about a similar scenario to do with working hours.

Would you expect to still have a job?

Can you also say if you or anyone you know has had probation ended and if so what for - is it enough to just say the person doesn't fit the culture of the company do you think?

OP posts:
AdventFridgeOfShame · 01/03/2023 22:46

Have they passed their tests?

ShimmeringShirts · 01/03/2023 22:49

You can terminate their employment during probation for no reason whatsoever if you like - you don’t need to give them a reason either way. Just tell them it’s not working out and you have to let them go.

Kittlbua · 01/03/2023 22:54

I really don't know why you would need to ask something like this on Mumsnet.
Surely you must know that someone leaving their shift so early a few times even after being reminded, is reason enough to terminate employment.
Though if you communicated to this person in a similar garbled fashion to your first two or three posts on here, perhaps they did not understand what you were expecting from them!
If you have HR at the place where you work I suggest you talk to them about it. If you don't you should discuss with your line manager.

9outof10cats · 01/03/2023 23:02

silverclock222 · 01/03/2023 22:35

You do realise a formal disciplinary is required to give a written warning you can't just give one. You must manage like the OP does - badly!
@Zorrita has it exactly right!

Show quote history

You do realise you have a very rude manner. I hope you don't manage people with that temperament.

BreviloquentBastard · 01/03/2023 23:07

I also can't fathom why the conversation about leaving early took two hours. I had to investigate a theft allegation recently and that meeting didn't even take two hours, did you perform the meeting as a ballet or something?

Original poster
nCemplument · 01/03/2023 23:13

For the fifth time - the meeting was also to go through handbook, contracts and expectations as an employee which included you don't leave early just because you decided to not take lunch!!

Also can I add in this person moved the appointment earlier in order to leave early!!

OP posts:
Original poster
nCemplument · 01/03/2023 23:13

Their work/client appointment earlier I should add

OP posts:
Willdenytothedeath · 01/03/2023 23:17

I asked before, but your didn't respond, why are they sometimes missing lunch anyway? Whilst she should stay until home time, surely you are equally obliged to make sure she has the opportunity of a break, and yet you take about people being expected to stay 'even when they miss a break' etc makes it sounds like a common occurrence.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 01/03/2023 23:23

Ok… so I’ll answer it this way. (Note I don’t have any experience with your labor laws so apply as appropriate).

Yes this is something you should consider terminating an employee for. If you had a very direct conversation with the employee and stated they can’t leave early, You should begin the work to terminate. They aren’t going to change and getting rid of them later is just going to harder, because if let it go now you are telling them with your actions that leaving early is ok.

Hartlebury · 01/03/2023 23:28

Sometimes proof reading for mistakes and clarity is a really good idea. This is one of those times.

Orders76 · 01/03/2023 23:30

Managing someone flakey is tough but if they miss lunch I'd be totally ok with them doing seven and half ( infrequently)

Puckthemagicdragon · 01/03/2023 23:34

If they aren't impressing on probation I doubt they suddenly will when it's up. Let them go now.

Totalwasteofpaper · 01/03/2023 23:38

Stop hand wringing and just fire him now in his probation while its easy.
(I have had to performance manage out several people i inherited and its a royal pain and emotionally draining.

It sounds like there are several issues With him. Diarise a meeting, liaise wiyh hr. Take all the issues, package them up into a goodbye shitsandwich and send him on his merry way.

namechangeforthisbleep · 02/03/2023 07:14

I'm meeting with all my staff to go over service standards, procedures etc and have allocated 2 hours. Jeeeez people are really searching for ways to undermine the OP just because her opening OP was a little scrambled. Urgh, it's too early for me to be reading this pointless aggression

ferneytorro · 02/03/2023 07:35

You arent “ending their probation” they aren’t the right words!! End of probation suggests they’ve passed it. You are terminating their employment. How long is probation? But yes you need to terminate as probation is usually the time you try to impress.

FirstnameSuesecondnamePerb · 02/03/2023 08:24

If its not the first instance, then the employee is just showing a wilfull disregard of the rules.
I would terminate

Haffdonga · 02/03/2023 08:36

I wonder if you were as clear to the employee as you think you were in this meeting where you explained expectations. Your posts are unclear and open to misinterpretation. If this is your normal way of communicating perhaps give the employee a written warning including hours expected in the office so there is no possibility they can argue they didnt understand.

AlisonDonut · 02/03/2023 08:42

a - if you are this confusing no wonder they have no fucking idea what is required
b - you wouldn't end their probation, you would end their employment
c - you can end someone's employment for going early without permission yes.
d - get a grip and say what you mean in future.

BreviloquentBastard · 02/03/2023 09:59

nCemplument · 01/03/2023 23:13

For the fifth time - the meeting was also to go through handbook, contracts and expectations as an employee which included you don't leave early just because you decided to not take lunch!!

Also can I add in this person moved the appointment earlier in order to leave early!!

Yeah I still don't understand how that took 2 hours, that's the point I'm making, that's ludicrous for an onboarding or induction meeting. I've never done one that took more than half an hour.

No one is going to absorb any information if it takes that long, you're just info-dumping if you're reading through the entire handbook with them, nothing at all is going to sink in so no wonder they can't remember things. You need to look at making your onboarding meetings more succinct and integrating elements of the information into first week training so they're not just being inundated with information for two hours straight away.

Original poster
nCemplument · 02/03/2023 10:02

@BreviloquentBastard I don't know the quality of staff you hire but sitting through a two hour meeting yes I do expect someone to be competent enough to do this, they're not 4 year olds

OP posts:
HundredMilesAnHour · 02/03/2023 10:10

nCemplument · 02/03/2023 10:02

@BreviloquentBastard I don't know the quality of staff you hire but sitting through a two hour meeting yes I do expect someone to be competent enough to do this, they're not 4 year olds

Surely the people you hire should also be competent enough to read the staff handbook and their contract on their own without you having to read it to them?!

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 02/03/2023 10:19

If it was a one-off, and everything else was OK, I wouldn't end probation for this alone. I would want to know why they had done it and would be giving a clear warning that it wasn't acceptable.

If there were other problems alongside this, and there was no reasonable explanation, then I would probably let them go.

Why are they missing breaks? Is that through choice or are they not getting a chance to take them?

Untitledsquatboulder · 02/03/2023 10:27

Puckthemagicdragon · 01/03/2023 23:34

If they aren't impressing on probation I doubt they suddenly will when it's up. Let them go now.

This. If they require huge support to even stay in work the correct amount of time then it's not going to work out.

maddy68 · 02/03/2023 10:34

nCemplument · 01/03/2023 21:35

Ok sorry so there been a build up of things yes and it led to me making it explicitly clear the working day is eight hours and missing a lunch break isn't a reason to leave early (even if this were the case lunch is half so it is still way off) but despite this discussion I've found evidence as put in my original post

No-one is just entitled to work through lunch and go home early. If they have asked their boss if they can then that's a whole different issue. And they have done. Nothing wrong.

Your post isn't clear still. Sorry

maddy68 · 02/03/2023 10:36

If you are as unclear in your Instructions to them as you are in the post then I'm on their side. You have them permission.

If you then change your mind. Make that clear but if it was on the same day I would assume that they have made prior arrangements for child care etc. So that would apply from the following day