Why is there so much disdain towards tradesmen on MN?

[Enfys1982]

I’m genuinely baffled by it. Most of the men in my family are in trade. including my dad and brother. They are not lazy cowboys or crooks, my dad has worked since he started his apprenticeship when he was fifteen and has never been out of work since (he’s now semi retired) and barely had a day off sick either. He pays all his taxes and his is a registered Limited company with companies house. All are as honest as the day is long. No tax dodging or cash in hand jobs.

Please also be assured that none of them are ‘thick’ as posters are implying on one thread. You won’t see a ‘thick’ plumber or electrician as they need good GCSE grades, particularly in Maths, English and Science, to get a place at college to train. It’s very, very competitive and anything less than a B is pushing it for a place. They’re not going to let ‘thick people’ install gas boilers or rewire peoples homes ffs🙄

Rant over!

I'm in NZ and the attitude towards tradies is - like Australia - very positive. People do mention bad experiences but it's not the dominant theme of the conversation. There are bad tradies out there, but there are bad lawyers and accountants too.

Tradies seem to get paid more here and have a pretty good standard of living. I suspect that has a lot to do with it.

The only really bad experience we've had was with an Englishman, incidentally (but we've had other English tradies who have been fine.)

I have no disdain for tradesmen who turn up, charge an honest price (ie profit for them without gouging me), do the job without leaving half way through whilst leaving me with no hot water, a non functioning toilet, no electricity, etc, and finish the job in a timely manner as promised with no extortionate "unforeseen" extra fees.

If that's your family members, send them round to mine.

I have a decorator who is as honest and reliable as above. He's in high demand because of that. I always give him extra when I pay the bill.

On the other hand, the electrician I had to do our extension nearly caused my house to be burnt down, did an awful job, went missing days at a time and still expected full payment. CF. If he'd gone up with the house, he'd have been the last thing I'd have put out.

This is about it. We are doing up the family house a bit and it's taken over a year to get a decent set of people, ie plumber, electrician, plasterer and so on. And they are fine, but along the way we got ghosted a lot, people showing up for half an hour to look at the job, take photos, never hear back from them with a quote. Wastes time.
Doesn't help that the regulators are a bit rubbish, as is the way in this country. Checkatrade is not a State-based regulator - not that it would be much better if it was, the State is corrupt now - and that has its horror stories.
Personally I feel a bit of reverse snobbery in me - I've had some lads talking like bovver boys or the underclass then I think, well, what kind of tosser am I then, who am I to judge - then indeed they do a crap job. If they sound like lairy con men, they probably are. Same with one who offered a wet lettuce handshake - said to be a sign of untrustworthiness, but who says this? Who decides? Went ahead with him and it was a rubbish job so there you go.
Looking back... that was the guy who strolled onto my back garden through the side gate when I was at work, he was working on the neighbour's house, could he do any jobs? I'm a bloke so it wasn't physically threatening but I did feel a bit irked, then got irked at feeling irked.

Because people are more likely to post when they have something to complain about ?

Funny that I’ve never met anyone who has been done over by a trades person. Nor have I heard of any not turning up Enfys1982

Allow me to introduce myself as someone who has been 'done over' and not had tradesmen turn up.

I've been employing tradesmen & women for approx 40 years. In that time I have needed the services of all sorts of trades - plasterers, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, painters & decorators - you get the picture. Only today has another tradesman not turned up, after insisting he would come today, me re-arranging work and other commitments, and no reply to texts and calls. He should have arrived at 9am and I eventually heard from him just before 4pm, saying he'll let me know when he can come. I'm not holding my breath, certainly won't be chasing him and I will be looking around for another. This is not the first time he and others have failed to arrive - to give quotes, to send the actual quote, fix a starting date, arrive on said starting date, to continue until the job is complete. Funnily enough the bill always arrives the next day.

Yes - there have been those who do turn up when they say they will and some of those do a good job, but sadly they are not the majority.

I used to argue with my DP about the time it took to get things repaired, he wanted to know why it took me so long to arrange things. So I 'let' him organise a bathroom re-fit, and now he knows.

Sadly the reputation of the UK tradesman is poor

MN is full of horrific snobs who are allergic to working class people. Even when those working class people are earning 3x as much as they are with no student debt. Classism here is absolutely rife

Let me introduce myself too.

My sister had a bathroom refit and it took two months for them to finish it. I have a German friend and he said that his dad had a new bathroom and it was like a military operation. Dates and times given for one workmen to arrive and leave so the next one could come and do their part. It was done in days.
At my sisters none of the tradesmen seemed to talk to each other and then, for good measure, the tiler threw his grout down the toilet and it solidified in the pipes. 🤦‍♀️

Theobstinateheadstronggirl

Where's the snobbery in expecting someone to turn up when they say they will ?

I am fully respectful of the skills and knowledge of others, but if you put yourself out there offering those skills and knowledge for a fee, then it is perfectly reasonable for your customers to expect you to turn up when you said you would. I would apply this to a solicitor, doctor, teacher as well as a plumber, electrician or plasterer. Class and educational background doesn't come into it.

Sorry, it's not classism to criticise a tradesman who when replacing a window, removed the lintel and put a piece of plastic over the hole where the lintel had been and thought that was ok. My back wall could have come down.

My mum's care home was rewired and the electrician did it wrong and caused an electrical fire. They had to evacuate 30 residents in that freezing January weather outside in their nightclothes. It new all the door security systems to keep the residents in the home. They lost all their electronics like their telephone systems, emergency alerts and computers. 10 days later they were still using electric fires because they had no central heating.

Why am I being a snob to criticise them and to have lost faith in tradesmen? If they're earning that much money, you'd think they'd take the time to do at least a safe job even if not a good one.

Am amazing builder quoted for our roof recently. Punctual, communicative, reads scientific papers connected to the industry. I developed quite the crush on him. But he was a bit unusual.

I have had more bad tradesmen than good. If I can't do it myself I'm loathed to get tradesmen in.

I've had some right shits, plenty more negative experiences than good. At least with other workers I can complain to their company ect bad tradesmen just vanish.

I can understand a tradesman being busy, booked up for months etc. I can wait. All I want is for them to learn to book work into some kind of appointment system and then turn up. If they can’t turn up, message or call, and be HONEST. I waited three weeks for a roofer to ‘pop’ round. He cancelled for the following:

• forgot it’s his son’s birthday
• the next day - hurt leg and in minor injuries
• the day after that - van broken down
• two days after that - was unwell and couldn’t come. (Saw his van!)

eventually he called to arrange to come with about 30 mins notice. I didn’t reply. I’d already found someone else less calamitous. Just don’t bullshit people. I hate that.

I disagree with you op. I used to flip properties so have engaged dozens of tradespeople over the years. I have a lot of respect for people who have skills I don't. I don't care about their education level - I've had tradespeople who don't have any GCSEs and learned on the job, and some who are university graduates. I always pay invoices within 24 hours, I provide access to kettle and provide tea, coffee and on occasion biscuits (though I do not make them tea unless I am making myself some), they are welcome to use the toilet. I also provide parking permits if needed.
What I expect in return is: turning up when agreed, treating me, my property and other tradespeople with respect, doing a good job and keeping a tidy site, and finally charging what they say they will.
The first one seems to be a HUGE problem. The vast majority of complaints I hear are about this. I hear them usually after someone has asked me for a recommendation as they have been let down. On one job, I myself went through four plumbers. This was due to: failing to turn up so putting other trades off their schedule; not being able to work with others; incompetence, failing to complete a job. Several times I've had to have work redone. Two other plumbers were so rude during the quoting process I never hired them. Also plumbers in particular seem to be guilty of the 'just nipping to the shop for a part' excuse then not returning for hours.
I've had tradesmen who I have worked on one project satisfactorily quote on another, turn up the week before to confirm the job and schedule, then disappear. No answering phone calls from me or other trades. This, as stated above, is the most frequent and most frustrating problem. Why can't they call if they got another job/broke their leg/didn't finish a previous job/ just are no longer interested? Why?
All of the people that have had problems with have been English.
My current team have been amazing. All have done exactly as requested, all have turned up the day agreed and on time, all have not only done the job but done it with pride and care. All have left the site tidy each day. Most of them are not English.
It's not snobbery. It's not anything other than expecting competent work in return for a fee.

Unfortunately because (imo) the majority I've encountered have been hopeless at turning up on time if at all, and/or have been cowboys. A good tradie is worth their weight in gold and I would go out of my way to recommend them, unfortunately the good ones are few and far between. Perhaps it's because unlike other services you engage the standards differ so more "bad" ones get through.

There are tradesmen and tradesmen. I’ve known one brilliant gas engineer and one ok one as against half a dozen who would rip off anyone. I’ve now got a brilliant carpenter and I won’t let anyone else do work on my house. However the guys who fitted the flooring were arseholes. It all depends.

Because many on MN are snobs. People in trades are respected where I live - not the UK.

In my experience they never turn up when they say they will.

I've been waiting almost a month for an appointment with one, who was due to come to carry out a job which will cost me £1k today.

I received a text yesterday saying he's come down with a sickness bug. I said I was sorry to hear he is unwell, and if he could let me know when he will be able to come; no reply!

I have to start all over again now.

They're not respected here much for the same reason. Useless and unreliable. NZ

I've had so many poor experiences,

• turning up late or not turning up at all
• lying re experience they had and previous jobs and then not having skills needed
• trashing parts of my house that weren't in scope

-always dissing the work of any previous trades

• having work done that then had to be redone as it was so bad /not fit for purpose (so many times)
• nearly breaking my house by not across-propping it properly.
• not reading plans and building things wrong
• not finishing the job

Good trades are so hard to come by, and in my experience the Polish are streets above other nationalities. Trouble is every time I find a good one, they leave.

I've tried using people who come recommended but even had poor experiences there.

I've had some good experiences too but they are only about 30% of the time. I'd not put up with that 'win rate' in any other service industry.

I just heard of a local job for someone I know where they did a huge renovation, looked fab but then they discovered that the electrics were sub par and they all had to be replaced. How did that happen and how was the part 2 issued ? Just dreadful.

We need much better laws and training in the trades.

Oh and the architects I've used on 1 of my 2 major jobs did a spectacular clock up too for a routine job. So,it's not just the hands on trades that can be the issue.

If I had my professional time again I'd run a women only building company that delivered quality, on time with clear communication at all times. I'd make a mint.

My fil and bil are plumbers, many of dhs school friends went into various trades and a couple are now incredibly skilled and highly regarded (one is a plasterer and it's like a piece of art watching him work).

Like another pp, we've pretty much stopped getting work done on the house because it's too stressful and when we have it's via actual building companies for which we pay a premium. We need a tiny indoor building job done and some plastering but literally no one will do it. I've rung every single recommendation I have had and all say yes and none show up. I get the jobs are small but I can't help that (dhs mate lives the other side of the country).

This. Not replying to messages to start with, then not turning up, then leaving halfway through a job and leaving it unfinished for weeks. Before eventually patching it up and charging the Earth for a shoddy job. Not to mention their sexist attitudes (I’ve had requests for not just drinks but food from some of them, would they ask my DH that?!). They make the whole process stressful because they’re incapable of either admitting a job is beyond them, or just doing it quickly and quietly to a good standard when agreed.

We've had great and awful experiences recently.
Our builder sent me photos of some work he'd ' completed' and wanted money for. They looked fine so (more fool me) I gladly paid him, only to get there and he'd left a massive hole in a wall that funnily enough, he hadn't sent me a photo of! He now won't return to finish the job and we're having to get someone else.
A gardener laid a patio then decided not to grout it and fell off the face of the earth...no communication at all.
We've just had a great fence painter and electrician and it makes you very much more grateful for them!

For example I’ve just had a boiler replaced. They ripped a hole in my kitchen cupboard (seriously) to put the new pipe in without even telling me they were going to do it because the pipe on the new one is lower down than on my last. They did not even cut a neat hole, literally just looked like they’ve punched a hole in it - absolutely shocking and I’m taking it to small claims. When confronted they tried to charge me more money to mend the cupboard!

Because they are a PITA to deal with! I’ve had about a 50/50 success rate with them actually turning up, as have most people I know. Luckily I don’t think we’ve ever had shoddy workmanship but the plumber I know is good and can work our boiler took over a week of him saying he’d come and not showing. Most people would have given up but I’d called other plumbers who didn’t have a clue how to actually service a combi boiler because they only do installs and services of boilers they’ve installed 💰. I’m worried that as the old lot retire it will be nigh on impossible to find people who actually know what they’re doing!