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Original poster

Why is there so much disdain towards tradesmen on MN?

241 replies

Enfys1982 · 28/02/2023 21:41

I’m genuinely baffled by it. Most of the men in my family are in trade. including my dad and brother. They are not lazy cowboys or crooks, my dad has worked since he started his apprenticeship when he was fifteen and has never been out of work since (he’s now semi retired) and barely had a day off sick either. He pays all his taxes and his is a registered Limited company with companies house. All are as honest as the day is long. No tax dodging or cash in hand jobs.

Please also be assured that none of them are ‘thick’ as posters are implying on one thread. You won’t see a ‘thick’ plumber or electrician as they need good GCSE grades, particularly in Maths, English and Science, to get a place at college to train. It’s very, very competitive and anything less than a B is pushing it for a place. They’re not going to let ‘thick people’ install gas boilers or rewire peoples homes ffs🙄

Rant over!

OP posts:
ProbablyDogNappersHunX · 01/03/2023 08:28

I'm currently having work done and have an experienced builder managing a variety of subcontractors.

Despite him giving me the edited highlights of local tradesmen, and being quite willing to give them a bollocking when required, last week from one plumber I had

Monday - no show. Didn't hear until 2pm.
Tuesday - said he'd turn up, change a faulty tap and check what materials he needed for the bigger job. He turned up, didn't change the tap, made some notes and left again. Said he'd be back next day for the tap.
Wednesday - no show
Thursday - no show. Main builder read the riot act to him.
Friday - actually turned up, did the tap and got most of the way through the main job but didn't have all the materials he needed
Saturday - finished the job. Sort of. Didn't put some tiles back properly.

6 consecutive days on which he promised to be there before he finally finished a relatively minor job!

And then on Monday I noticed my new u-bend was dripping

He's not going to be troubling the producers of Mastermind any time soon either - he was telling me how he'd left school at 14 and thought it was best to leave school early. He was about 30, so definitely not old enough to have done so legally!

LuckySantangelo35 · 01/03/2023 08:29

I don’t think there is!

I think people on here - well, women - are falling over themselves to look after them with endless supplies of tea, coffee, pop, biscuits, crisps, bacon sarnies, etc. And they dare not make even the slightest criticism or request cos “good tradesmen are hard to find”

Logburnerperils · 01/03/2023 08:31

There is a reason places like check a trade exist and that is because we have all had a bad experience with a tradesperson

Sleepimpossible · 01/03/2023 08:36

Well I agree with the main points made in your post. I think there is an intrinsic snobbery towards tradespeople on mumsnet: professionals are deemed somehow ‘better’. Well I believe that every job is equally valuable in a civilised and respectful society and it should be seen that way.
Yes, we too have had negative experiences with tradespeople, not showing up, quoting and then going silent, but then we’ve also had bad experiences with lawyers, accountants, estate agents etc.
I can’t bear innate snobbery.

WimpoleHat · 01/03/2023 08:37

Funny that I’ve never met anyone who has been done over by a trades person.

It’s not funny at all - you come from a family of tradespeople! You will therefore probably know a wide group of people who can do various jobs - and who are the good ones. In turn, they will know that you’re X’s daughter/Y’s wife/Z’s sister and will treat you differently from Mrs Public.

We are friendly with the builder who did a lot of our work. If we ask his advice about a tradesman and say “Mike recommended you”, then we get a service which is wholly different from one we get if we call out of the phone book. It’s human nature to some extent.

Agree with a pp who said it comes down to many being skilled people without good skills in business management. And that’s understandable too - they’re different skills. But it does damage trust.

TrishM80 · 01/03/2023 08:39

IAmTheWalrus85 · 01/03/2023 07:06

This is a big part of it. If you know people in the trades and have family connections you get much better service.

We’ve had appalling experience and appalling experience - the latest one is a window fitter who’s stolen £3k from us.

I’ve resolved not to use English tradespeople anymore. We’ve never had a good experience. The only good experiences we’ve had have been with Polish tradespeople.

Show quote history

Yes, eastern European, particularly Polish tradesmen are excellent. No wonder British tradesmen voted for Brexit.

ponyinmud · 01/03/2023 08:56

Enfys1982 · 28/02/2023 21:50

@Cam22 I agree. Pure snobbery because they didn’t go to Uni but are still probably better off than them. Funny that I’ve never met anyone who has been done over by a trades person. Nor have I heard of any not turning up, but then I I’d not want to do work for someone who blatantly looked down on my because of my career choice.

I don't think Uni is that aspirational anymore, I'm middle aged and most people I knew went to Uni, it's just an extension of school.

Most people I know (including myself) have been ripped off or let down badly by builders/tradesmen so they have a dim view of them. Your family might be great, but can you see they might be the exception to the rule?

Xiaoxiong · 01/03/2023 08:56

Roof started leaking in Sept coming in around chimney

Called 3 roofers for quotes to do repair to flashing around chimney - all organised with dates and times

Waited in, confirmed the morning of, 2 ghosted me and never turned up, answered phone calls or contacted me ever again

1 turned up and gave me a quote

Wrote to accept, he never responded, ghosted me and never responded to any calls again

Managed to get a friend of DH's stepfather to come and quote before Christmas, he said he was busy with one other job but "is it ok if we start in Jan" - no problem I said

Doesn't turn up, "oh sorry, other job taking longer than expected, next week"

It is now March 1st...still "next week". And he NEVER calls me - I am always the one chasing.

Roof is still leaking and it keeps me up at night worrying about it. And I don't know anyone else in the local area besides the 4 I've tried and failed with.

If this was one cowboy I could understand but this has been every single tradesman I have ever attempted to hire - have had this with electricians, carpenters, plumbers, gardeners, etc. 100% are like this. I have experienced terrible teachers, doctors, bankers whatever but not 100% of the time!

Spendonsend · 01/03/2023 08:58

I think electrics and gas are regulated.
But I do agree that the rest of the industry seems very unregulated or the regulations arent very clear to a consumer if there are any.

KateAusten · 01/03/2023 09:01

I think it's because most seem to turn up late, do an hours work, have lunch, do an hours work then leave

The standard of work is often very poor too

Coxspurplepippin · 01/03/2023 12:28

'but then we’ve also had bad experiences with lawyers, accountants, estate agents etc.
I can’t bear innate snobbery.'

But this thread is about tradesmen. If you started a thread complaining about shoddy service from lawyers, accountants, estate agents, you'd get probably receive plenty of examples of shoddy service especially from estate agents . There is nothing innately snobbish about expecting someone who has agreed to do something for an agreed price at an agreed time to actually, you know, do it.

QueenCamilla · 01/03/2023 12:45

@Enfys1982 surely it’s not rocket science to understand why you can’t get a chimney stack taken down in the middle of winter?🤔

Let me think... Santa can't come?

Of course you can remove a chimney breast/stack in winter.
Either way, I wouldn't lend much credibility to "knowing all these amazing trades" after this. How could you even tell a good job from a bad un' without some understanding of building works!

Moonicorn · 01/03/2023 12:48

Coxspurplepippin · 01/03/2023 12:28

'but then we’ve also had bad experiences with lawyers, accountants, estate agents etc.
I can’t bear innate snobbery.'

But this thread is about tradesmen. If you started a thread complaining about shoddy service from lawyers, accountants, estate agents, you'd get probably receive plenty of examples of shoddy service especially from estate agents . There is nothing innately snobbish about expecting someone who has agreed to do something for an agreed price at an agreed time to actually, you know, do it.

Also you can complain to somebody with poor work from an accountant - they have a professional body and unless self employed, a company or manager to complain to. Tradespeople get away with it because they don’t, they can drop off the face of the Earth and there’s nowhere to go with it unless you have the time and money to take them to court.

Scottishskifun · 01/03/2023 12:54

I don't like dealing with trades people because of a bad experience our flat roof was replaced.....supposed to be 20 year guarantee wasn't worth the paper it was written on! House insurance tried to recoup money via courts....the roofer just liquidated the company and started a new one! Cost us 7k to get redone. We now use a roofer who is amazing but my god its hard to get a slot with him even 6 months in advance!

There are some amazing trades people put there but for every good one there is at least 2 rubbish ones/cowboys and it's very difficult to tell before it's too late which ones these are!

QueenCamilla · 01/03/2023 13:16

@Xiaoxiong

I'm very sorry to hear about the issues you are having with the roofers... It's so hard watching your home getting damaged so much.
I had a similar story in the autumn/winter.
I actually went on the roof Myself (!) when the roofer postponed the job for the third time. I also had gone through 4 cowboys already at that point.

Upon inspecting the roof myself, I discovered that I've been lied to for gain (fraud/scam) and the roof that needed 8k worth of repair, was actually fine.
There was a very obvious gutter&downpipe blockage, water over-flowing backwards into the house and then leaking down in three completely separate places. I fixed that issue in 45mins at a cost of £0.00.
I later got the gutters&downpipes replaced at a fraction of 8k.

The roofer turned verbally aggressive when confronted and called me a derogatory term on the payment reference with the bank when returning the deposit.
A bunch of arseholes.

QueenCamilla · 01/03/2023 13:19

Here's a picture of my "roof damage" that was never mentioned by the roofers:

*only the smartest top 2% of people will be able to spot the issue in 10seconds and under 😁

Why is there so much disdain towards tradesmen on MN?
Camilliatile · 01/03/2023 13:20

Enfys1982 · 28/02/2023 22:01

@Ludo19 and most of the bankers in the city have a massive cocaine habit. I’m not quite sure what the point your making is really?

Really good tradespeople will be booked up months in advance which is why it’s sometimes hard to pin them down. I think a lot of MNetters struggle to understand that their loft conversion/extension isn’t the most important thing in the world at the specific moment and no tradesperson is going to drop everything to do the job for them when they had something else booked in first.

That's not what most of us are asking for, though. I want them to:

  1. turn up to look at a job when they say they will
  2. email me a quote within a week, or say that they don't want to do the job
  3. turn up to do the work when they say they will
  4. finish the job to a good standard

This isn't dropping everything and making my job the most important thing in the world. It's just standard courtesy.

BetterFuture1985 · 01/03/2023 13:23

Because the wives and partners of tradesmen go to work. It is the wives of high earners that wallow here all day chatting about how hard done by they are 😂

JackieDaws · 01/03/2023 13:33

Because MN believe tradies are servants, like they believe cleaners are, and can't understand why they don't jump when they click their badly manicured fingers.

kirinm · 01/03/2023 13:36

LemonRoseCat · 28/02/2023 21:49

I have heard that in the UK we have notoriously shoddy standards for trades compared to countries like Australia.

There are an absolute shitload of Australian and New Zealand tradesman that now live here. Some construction companies here expressly recruit from their countries. Do you think it's because they're so much better than UK tradespeople or because they're cheaper?

kirinm · 01/03/2023 13:42

UsernameNotAvailableApparently · 28/02/2023 22:47

Most self employed tradies I know leave the house at around 6-7am, work a full day on the tools, do some evening quotes as they have to fit around other peoples working hours, get home and have to write up those quotes/do other paperwork.

It’s gruelling and relentless, and like a PP said most are generally good at their actual trade but not so much the self employed part. It’s no excuse for poor customer service but working 12+ hour days, normally 6 days per week, will mean things get missed or they seem disorganised.

One of the things my DB (an electrician) moans about a lot is just poor project coordination. He will ‘first fix’ a house and then have to wait for the builders or whatever to do the work before he can go in for ‘second fix.’ What normally happens is the customer or builder will call and say “we’re ready for you days early,
come tomorrow.” Or something gets postponed and the second fix he’s booked in for 2 weeks is now 2 months away. How is anyone supposed to manage their schedules like this?

I think if many of the people complaining actually worked as a tradie for a couple of months, even the most organised would find it crumbling pretty quickly.

And yeah you get some shit cowboys, luckily no one I know or have had work on my house (the perks of growing up surrounded by good tradespeople!) but realistically most are working bloody hard to juggle it all and I have the utmost respect for them, because I couldn’t do it!

Oh this is my DP and said more eloquently than I could. He's been waiting on builders to finish part of an extension so he can go in and second fix, it's been pushed back and back and he's having to juggle other jobs only to then get a call saying we need you tomorrow.

Someone somewhere is always going to be annoyed but it'll be DP who is out of pocket for time lost.

daisypond · 01/03/2023 13:43

BetterFuture1985 · 01/03/2023 13:23

Because the wives and partners of tradesmen go to work. It is the wives of high earners that wallow here all day chatting about how hard done by they are 😂

No, the poor, the elderly, the disabled, the unemployed, the carers, the low-earning shift workers also need work done on their properties too. The vulnerable and poor are being scammed by tradesmen.

kirinm · 01/03/2023 13:44

cakewench · 28/02/2023 23:21

I never had an opinion on tradesmen until I bought a house and needed some work done. It is actually infuriating to invite someone into your home to get a quote for a fairly standard job just to be spoken to as if I’m a complete dimwit who couldn’t possibly understand anything. So many times. I’m at the point where I’d love to have more work done but I just can’t deal with what seems to be generally accepted behaviour that I’m expected to put up with.

Is it every single tradesman? Of course not. I have met a few brilliant ones and have clung to them. But I can absolutely see where the stereotype comes from now.

'Invite then into your home'? You're not doing them a favour - you realise that?

kirinm · 01/03/2023 13:46

TomPinch · 28/02/2023 23:50

I'm in NZ and the attitude towards tradies is - like Australia - very positive. People do mention bad experiences but it's not the dominant theme of the conversation. There are bad tradies out there, but there are bad lawyers and accountants too.

Tradies seem to get paid more here and have a pretty good standard of living. I suspect that has a lot to do with it.

The only really bad experience we've had was with an Englishman, incidentally (but we've had other English tradies who have been fine.)

My DP used to work with a lot of electricians from Australia and New Zealand and said that it's actually a respected valued profession there - whereas here it's definitely viewed as some sort of lesser profession for those who were too stupid for university.

kirinm · 01/03/2023 13:49

RedHelenB · 01/03/2023 07:04

Maths and English at level 4 is all that's needed for college here and everyone gets in. That's not denigrating tradespeople BTW. I think being practical is a good thing and obviously to do the job you can't ve totally " thick" bur mostly academic people prefer to use their brains rather than their hands.

And trades don't need to use their brains?