Company wants me to pay back holiday days.

[Mooshamoo]

I started in a job in November 2022. We have an online annual leave system .
At the start of January 2023, 21 days on our online system became available to me for me to take.

I asked my manager could I take two weeks off at the start of the year. I took the last week of January and the first week of February off. This was approved by my manager. I took them. I was then moved to a new manager. Which was the way the company worked. New starters were with one manager. After two months you were changed to another manager

The company was pretty abusive and at the end of February I decided to leave.

I left. I then got an email from my second manager saying I had taken more annual leave days in the time I worked there, then I had accrued. And that I have to pay this annual leave money back. It is 550 euro. I'm in Ireland. This is a lot of money to me as i am now in between jobs.

Can they do this. My first manager who approved the annual leave days, never told me that I did not have enough annual leave days to take. She approved them. She never told me at any stage that if I left the company that I would have to pay these annual leave days back. If I had known that I wouldn't have taken them .

Can they do this to me now?

You're not dumb, you made a mistake as have we all. Deep breath, big walk, make a plan, keep moving forward.

You start a job in Nov, take the whole years leave entitlement almost instantly and then leave straight after ?
Hmmm , I think you're the opposite of naive.
Of course you have to pay it back. It's pro rated.
Many companies don't even let you take leave until you passed probation.

This is why in Canada you can only take the holiday you've earned...which means working a long time before being able to take a proper holiday. It sucks, but it does stop this sort of nonsense.

Firstly how is your dm @Mooshamoo ?
Secondly would your dm be financially able to lend/give you some of the money as you took the leave to care for her?
Thirdly don’t stress. If you haven’t got the money then the company will have to accept €10 a month until you get another job.

Right, I thought OP had a new job.

I’d contact HR, set up a payment plan but also maybe tell them the rules around holidays and accrual weren’t very clear. It does sound like you’re young (being dumb isn’t an excuse as I’ve known young employees who aren’t dumb). You just didn’t know and made assumptions.

I still think they’ll want all the money paid back but see what they’ll agree with you.

And of course next time, in a new job read everything thoroughly!

Yes, OP have a proper look through your contract and employee handbook before panicking.

Of course you have to pay it back, you have taken your years holiday without earning it.

I had to pay some back hen I left a job, they took it out my last wage package and of course I was a bit annoyed but it was holiday that I hadn’t earnt.

Seems like you were playing the system, and it didn't work out the way you thought it would.

OP by your assumed logic people could regularly switch jobs at say retailers, warehouses etc (places which perhaps are less likely to be put off with you changing jobs every 3 months), use your whole annual leave and then leave to a new job every 3 months and get paid for it all and over a year get say 4 months off lol.

I didn't give them notice. I actually didn't mean to quit this early. I'm meant to give them a weeks notice. But what happened was it got to a stage where I felt I couldn't do it one more day and I just quit on pay day.

Now looking back, I think why didn't I think it through longer.

I'd had a really bad week last week. I was in tears with my manager. And the manager of the whole place rang me. He is over hundreds of people in Ireland. He rang me and asked me what was wrong. And I said you know, I'm never able to take a single break. I have to work through every break and I was crying.
And I was really suffering
And then come payday last friday I just decided to quit. Which was a stupid financial decision from all angles. I should have sat down and thought about what would happen to me logistically and long term.

Not just quit in an emotional moment because I couldn't cope that week

You've been asked a few times and not answered - did you read your contract?

No. When I took the annual leave, I wasn't planning on quitting.

A month later, things got so bad, I quit. And I forgot about the annual leave that I had took.

Yes. I did when I started. I can't log in to read it today as they have locked me out of the system. I work remotely. I quit two days ago, they've locked me out of everything already

I just put that it is in my contract so I would have to pay it back.

@Mooshamoo Have you definitely signed a contract and have you found the bit that says you have to pay it back?

Have they said anything about the consequences of not working your notice period, or only the annual leave re-payment? Is the amount they've requested you pay both annual leave and a 'fine' for not working your notice, or just the a annual leave? Did they give a breakdown with the amount in the letter?

Well I can now see why employers are keen to get older people back into the workforce. Are people really this daft?

Who said I'm young? Im not young

Totally normal, I agree. Our contracts state:

"in the event of termination of employment, holiday entitlement will be calculated as 1/12th of the annual entitlement for each completed month of service during that holiday year and any holidays accrued but not taken will be paid for. However, in the event of you having taken any holidays in the current holiday year, which have not been accrued pro-rata, then the appropriate payments will be deducted from your final pay"

Key points here would be:

• whether payment is deducted from your final pay, or whether they're now coming back for it later, and whether that is allowed, if so; and
• whether there are any equivalent rules about deductions not being able to take you beneath the minimum wage, as we have in the UK.

On the face of it though, it is, unfortunately, correct that they can do this.

It makes sense though that you accrue the holiday over the coming year, but you have to be able to use it in advance as otherwise everyone would have at least one day's holiday remaining to use in December every year.

Annual leave is based on you working for the year, and approved by your manager on that basis
You left before you did a year
If you get 21 days over 52 wks ( or 365 days ) then you get 0.4038 days per week holiday allowance.

So if you work out how many weeks you worked and multiply by 0.4038 that’s how many you are entitled to
In order to justify two weeks off ( assuming 5day wk so 10 days ) you would need to work 25 weeks.

I've seen other posts by OP on another thread. She isn't young.

You’ve made a mistake so look at the best way out of it. If you write them a strongly worded email detailing their illegal work practices and threatening to counter sue they might decide you’re too much bother to pursue. Why don’t you try the CAB for advice.

You sound incredibly naive OP but which I think you've recognised. Even the comment about them locking you out of the system, of course they have. You quit - is that a shock?

You could probably agree with them to pay back a smaller amount each month rather than a one-off payment and then maybe wise up a bit?

That makes sense

No I'm not shocked that they locked me out of the system. I was expecting it. Someone just asked me did I reread my contract and I was pointing out that I can't get into the system to read the contract or hr files anymore as I am now locked out. So I can't read it again to see whats in it

@Mooshamoo It does mean nobody is ever in your position, plus stops companies having to deduct holiday pay, or chase repayment. It is awful though if you start a job in January, and can't take any leave until the following January!