Company wants me to pay back holiday days.

[Mooshamoo]

I started in a job in November 2022. We have an online annual leave system .
At the start of January 2023, 21 days on our online system became available to me for me to take.

I asked my manager could I take two weeks off at the start of the year. I took the last week of January and the first week of February off. This was approved by my manager. I took them. I was then moved to a new manager. Which was the way the company worked. New starters were with one manager. After two months you were changed to another manager

The company was pretty abusive and at the end of February I decided to leave.

I left. I then got an email from my second manager saying I had taken more annual leave days in the time I worked there, then I had accrued. And that I have to pay this annual leave money back. It is 550 euro. I'm in Ireland. This is a lot of money to me as i am now in between jobs.

Can they do this. My first manager who approved the annual leave days, never told me that I did not have enough annual leave days to take. She approved them. She never told me at any stage that if I left the company that I would have to pay these annual leave days back. If I had known that I wouldn't have taken them .

Can they do this to me now?

Did you read your contract?

They didn’t inform you because it’s bloody obvious

I feel for you, its easy to miss things that seem obvious to others, I'm in England and haven't been 'employed' for a good few years and didn't know this is standard practice in the UK too. Anywhere I have worked in the past, office based and catering mainly, had a policy that you could take leave but only get paid for if it if you had accrued the 'days' I used to be able to see the days and half days accrued on my work login page of my last job. I wonder if this future holiday pay is something that has become more common over time, or legislated for? Lots of people likely leave jobs before they have technically earned the holiday pay they have spent. In the UK you would be liable to pay this back so would assume the same in most countries TBH.

Sorry love but that's totally normal practise - bummer if you didn't realise I know but totally legal and legitimate

Why would they tell you if they didn't know you were going to leave?

Ok, so you do understand that you owe them the leave (or the cost of the leave that you took but didn't actually accrue during your length of time being employed there).
That's a start.

The next thing you have to do is liaise with the HR department to work out how you can pay them back for the 'extra' days of leave that you took but hadn't been employed long enough in the company to actually take.

Alternatively, you could see if there is a way that they could take you back for 2 months, provided you do not take any additional leave during that time and leave them again, but this time not owing them anything for the leave you took.

So you’ve worked before so you no what you are entitled to, some companies just allow you to book it differently. This is a bog standard fact of all jobs OP, advice about it is available on the gov site, citizens advice, acas… it’s not a secret. I’m surprised there’s no employee handbook for your job though. I understand it’s upsetting but you are a grown up in the working world, you are responsible for yourself. I hope you find a better job soon. I’d speak to the old place about a payment plan.

It’s in your contract and you should know that despite (I think I read) that you’ve been out of work environment for a while.

HR and your manager are under no obligation to inform you and they probably thought you were staying permanently anyway, so furthermore no need to inform you.

If you’re regretting quitting for financial reasons then you might be able to retract your notice, they would have to agree to have you back but if they’re desperate for staff they may say yes. You could work a few more months just to tide yourself over financially and find a new job.

It will probably say about repaying leave if you have taken more than your pro rata entitlement at the time you quit, either in your contract or on the company intranet somewhere. They don’t have to bring to your attention specially.

Hope your mum is ok

Oh look, a drip feed for sympathy when the thread isn't going as you'd expected.

OP, you made an error of judgement, but you need to put this behind you. Look for a new job and try to make a payment plan with your old employer to pay the money back over time.

Also, don't assume things and always read company handbooks/documents before you sign them and apply this rule to everything, not just work. So many people come unstuck or are hit with surprise charges etc because they didn't read what they were signing or do a basic check for common sense.

Yes of course they can.

If you work full time and your holiday year runs Jan-Dec you would’ve only accrued about 3.5 days holiday by the end of Feb.

Generally speaking you can take more than your accrued holiday at any time of the year but if you leave and you’ve taken more holiday than you’ve accrued then you’ll be expected to pay it back. Otherwise companies would find themselves in situations where they’re hiring people who work for a couple of weeks, take advantage of the paid holiday leave and then resign leaving them at a loss.

As the turn over is so high, perhaps they'll hire you back so you could earn some money and set up the payment plan for re-payment while you look for a new job?

@Mooshamoo
Have you received your final salary yet?
I wouldn't be suprised if they deduct the full amount from your final paycheck which I believe they are allowed to do.

Of course you owe them! I'm in ireland too. You are not entitled to paid holidays you haven't accrued. They obviously gave you the time off in good faith you were staying in the job. Why would you need to be told this? Is this your first job?
Ask for a payment plan. I'm sure they can do something to help you out.

You worked there for four months and took ten days holiday in total? Or did you take some last year as well? They can’t refuse to give you your days for the previous year. And ten days in four months sounds slightly under the legal minimum.

I do think that jobs should tell you how holiday entitlement works. They ar the very least should say "if you leave this job you will need to pay a/l back". I've looked through my contract and done see it anywhere.

I am on a WhatsApp group with colleagues . I can see one of the other girls on the group saying she is finding this job really hard and she can't do it a day longer as she feels faint, and wants to quit the job next month. She just wrote "I will have to remember to take all my annual leave before I go as I am owed those holiday days". She also doesn't understand and she is going to make the same mistake and the same thing is going to happen to her.

They are not allowed to do this without agreement.

Have to agree with @BarbaraofSeville , even if there’s no employee handbook etc there will be some sort of documents available to employees to inform them of work obligations.

I wouldn’t be booking holiday and assuming it’s ok without double checking with someone else.

None of what you're adding matters.

This is standard employment terms. That you didn't read your contract and weren't aware of this is no one's issue but your own.

The holiday is yours to take anytime on that year, but if you haven't worked enough days you'll owe them.

Stop whining and ask them if they'll except a payment plan.

Check your contract of employment. If you don’t have one or if it’s not in there you may be able to get out of it, but it’s doubtful. It’s fairly standard. They were giving you 21 days for the year, based on the assumption you would remain in employment all year.

Hi there, I am sorry you are feeling do rough. I worked in a call centre and its damn tough. Not kicking you when you are down however you made very poor decisions and as an adult you need to resolve this. If you could only take leave that's been accumulated in the last year, it makes sense that you would have to pay the money back. At a guess HR will deduct this feom your final payslip. You accumalate 1.66 days per month. Easy looking back but how fo you think you should resolve this? If you have already been paid I would suggest partial repayments per month. You are also going to fun into trouble claiming social welfare as you resigned. Contact MABs or citizens advice. Best of luck

She just wrote "I will have to remember to take all my annual leave before I go as I am owed those holiday days".

Erm that has nothing to do with your situation.
Also, I said exactly same before leaving places because I was to take the ones I accrued. So wll my annual leave I was owed.

“They didn’t inform me of that”

presumably because they assumed you would realise that working somewhere for three months doesn’t get you nearly a months paid holiday!

check your contract.

@Mooshamoo sorry but it will be in your employment contract and is standard with any job.

Your lack of knowledge is unfortunate but they will deduct it from your final salary.

Of course you're being unreasonable, that's how holiday works. You will receive a pro-rata allocation of holiday and you owe them the rest.