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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Company wants me to pay back holiday days.

562 replies

Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 09:55

I started in a job in November 2022. We have an online annual leave system .
At the start of January 2023, 21 days on our online system became available to me for me to take.

I asked my manager could I take two weeks off at the start of the year. I took the last week of January and the first week of February off. This was approved by my manager. I took them. I was then moved to a new manager. Which was the way the company worked. New starters were with one manager. After two months you were changed to another manager

The company was pretty abusive and at the end of February I decided to leave.

I left. I then got an email from my second manager saying I had taken more annual leave days in the time I worked there, then I had accrued. And that I have to pay this annual leave money back. It is 550 euro. I'm in Ireland. This is a lot of money to me as i am now in between jobs.

Can they do this. My first manager who approved the annual leave days, never told me that I did not have enough annual leave days to take. She approved them. She never told me at any stage that if I left the company that I would have to pay these annual leave days back. If I had known that I wouldn't have taken them .

Can they do this to me now?

OP posts:
SquashPenguin · 28/02/2023 10:50

If you didn’t have to pay it back what would stop someone taking on the job, taking all 21 days annual leave in the first month and then quit, expecting full pay for that month? You can’t just drip feed annual leave as you accrue it, or no one would ever be able to take a two week holiday in January!

Anklespraying · 28/02/2023 10:51

They aren't going to take you to court to get it back off you. It would cost more than the actual holiday pay.

Just tell them you have no money and you are unemployed and can't pay.

viques · 28/02/2023 10:52

Tomatotomatopotatopotato · 28/02/2023 10:49

Hi@Mooshamoo , sorry you're in this situation but I agree you do owe the money. Please follow the advice @pontipinemum gave above and I would also add that opening an account with your local credit union is a good idea if you haven't already done so. The credit union might loan you the money to pay back the company if the company won't allow a repayment plan. Credit unions can often offer loans with lower interest rates than other financial institutions and some give loans to those on low income so don't assume you won't be eligible.

Good luck with the next job, hope you find something suitable soon!

I think the OP will find that a credit union has the same expectation as an employer. You put something in before you take it out!

Bearonthestair · 28/02/2023 10:54

Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 10:50

No I can see what my colleague is saying on the group WhatsApp chat. She is saying she wants to use all her annual leave before she goes. Because she is finding the job stressful. She is saying she wants to take three weeks annual leave becauae she finds the job so stressful she needs the time off. And then she wants to leave the jon next month. She started at the same time as me . November last year. So if she leaves she will have to pay it back.

She is going to make the same mistake as me. So I will tell her what happened to me. I wish someone had told me

Show quote history

So your colleague is going to take 6 weeks holidays and hand in her notice. And sees nothing wrong with this plan? Even though its only February? Sounds legit.

She will be entitled to roughly 4 days annual leave plus St bridgets day. Which I assume she had off already if you are standard 9 -5.

Original poster
Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 10:55

I just feel ill with stress this morning. Did you ever do something and think what the fuck have I just done.

And of course looking back now I'm thinking "how did I not know that would happen". About the annual leave. It actually looks like I owe them 600 -700 euro.

what have I just done to myself. I've plunged myself into poverty and left myself with huge bills to pay , all before I got a new job .

Im going to go for a long walk and cry

OP posts:
SimplySipping · 28/02/2023 10:55

Do check HR's calcs though. They don't always get the sums right. The info you need should all be in your contract/employees handbook.

5foot5 · 28/02/2023 10:55

Certainly standard in the UK. But it works both ways. If you leave and have not used all the holiday you were entitles to then you can get pay in lieu of unused holiday.

Maybebabyno2 · 28/02/2023 10:55

Bearonthestair · 28/02/2023 10:54

So your colleague is going to take 6 weeks holidays and hand in her notice. And sees nothing wrong with this plan? Even though its only February? Sounds legit.

She will be entitled to roughly 4 days annual leave plus St bridgets day. Which I assume she had off already if you are standard 9 -5.

Show quote history

I think what is more likely is that the friend is going to make sure they take the days they have already accrued. Not the full year's allowance.

WandaWonder · 28/02/2023 10:56

Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 10:50

No I can see what my colleague is saying on the group WhatsApp chat. She is saying she wants to use all her annual leave before she goes. Because she is finding the job stressful. She is saying she wants to take three weeks annual leave becauae she finds the job so stressful she needs the time off. And then she wants to leave the jon next month. She started at the same time as me . November last year. So if she leaves she will have to pay it back.

She is going to make the same mistake as me. So I will tell her what happened to me. I wish someone had told me

Show quote history

They would have to give permission for the annual leave first

RosettaTheGardenFairy · 28/02/2023 10:57

Anklespraying · 28/02/2023 10:51

They aren't going to take you to court to get it back off you. It would cost more than the actual holiday pay.

Just tell them you have no money and you are unemployed and can't pay.

Call centre with high turnover will absolutely take people to small claims court, it's not that expensive and not much of a hassle. They may even outsource the whole thing and still come off better, or perhaps have an internal division dedicated solely to this sort of chasing.

Plus, it's theft.

Original poster
Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 10:57

Maybebabyno2 · 28/02/2023 10:55

I think what is more likely is that the friend is going to make sure they take the days they have already accrued. Not the full year's allowance.

Show quote history

No. She is talking about taking the FULL years allowance. I can see what she is writing in the group chat. She thinks she is entitled to it. She also doesn't understand.

OP posts:
Bearonthestair · 28/02/2023 10:58

Maybebabyno2 · 28/02/2023 10:55

I think what is more likely is that the friend is going to make sure they take the days they have already accrued. Not the full year's allowance.

Show quote history

Thats what I'm thinking too but op has stated otherwise.

Either way, double check payrolls calculations and ask for a payment plan. It will work out in the end. You will know for next time.

Muststopeating · 28/02/2023 10:58

I am sorry you are having a shit time. It is awful to realise that you have made a mistake financially, especially when you are skint. I did something similar when I first started working, didn't realise that I wouldn't be paid for leave as I hadn't accrued it yet (I was on a day rate... and it was a long time ago). I did panic and cried... I was fortunate enough that I had family who could bail me out for a month.

But if you are this skint, how can you justify quitting a job without another one? It sounds like shit conditions... But how do you expect to afford to live without a job? In the UK, if you quit a job you aren't even entitled to benefits for a certain period.

Sometimes you have to suck up a shit job for a while to sustain yourself. It sucks, but it's adulting.

Anklespraying · 28/02/2023 10:59

Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 10:55

I just feel ill with stress this morning. Did you ever do something and think what the fuck have I just done.

And of course looking back now I'm thinking "how did I not know that would happen". About the annual leave. It actually looks like I owe them 600 -700 euro.

what have I just done to myself. I've plunged myself into poverty and left myself with huge bills to pay , all before I got a new job .

Im going to go for a long walk and cry

Tell them you have no money and can't pay.

It's going to be very hard for them to force you too via the courts if you have no income.

GrumpyPanda · 28/02/2023 10:59

I'd imagine they can ask for it back. That said, have you made sure they've also calculated your outstanding leave from 2022? Assuming you started Nov 1 and didn't take any leave days your first two months, that would give you 3.5 days, so with leaving end of February 7 days in total. Still less than the ten you took, but possibly more than they calculated.

Maybebabyno2 · 28/02/2023 10:59

Also OP, offer to pay it back in a payment plan, they can't take you to court if you are working with them to pay it back, even slowly.

Anklespraying · 28/02/2023 11:00

RosettaTheGardenFairy · 28/02/2023 10:57

Call centre with high turnover will absolutely take people to small claims court, it's not that expensive and not much of a hassle. They may even outsource the whole thing and still come off better, or perhaps have an internal division dedicated solely to this sort of chasing.

Plus, it's theft.

Show quote history

It's not theft, no need to exaggerate. Unless you enjoy making people feel worse?

Maybebabyno2 · 28/02/2023 11:00

GrumpyPanda · 28/02/2023 10:59

I'd imagine they can ask for it back. That said, have you made sure they've also calculated your outstanding leave from 2022? Assuming you started Nov 1 and didn't take any leave days your first two months, that would give you 3.5 days, so with leaving end of February 7 days in total. Still less than the ten you took, but possibly more than they calculated.

Not all companies allow roll over of holiday, it's normally a use it or lose it type of thing. Especially in a call centre type of place.

VWCVT6 · 28/02/2023 11:00

RosettaTheGardenFairy · 28/02/2023 10:57

Call centre with high turnover will absolutely take people to small claims court, it's not that expensive and not much of a hassle. They may even outsource the whole thing and still come off better, or perhaps have an internal division dedicated solely to this sort of chasing.

Plus, it's theft.

Show quote history

I agree with this. I wouldn't just not pay it back without speaking to them.

@Mooshamoo I think you have realised you need to pay it back so I would contact them.

ApiratesaysYarrr · 28/02/2023 11:01

Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 10:02

Yes but they never informed me about any of this at any stage.

I was a bit naive as I had been off work for a while. So when I saw I had 21 days available to take, I just thought I could take them at any stage of the year.

I asked my manager could I take the annual leave at that stage. Surely she should have said : you only have so much annual leave built up, so you can only take 2 days?

Why let me take two weeks?
And why not inform me at any stage that If I left the company I would have to repay these hours.

Surely it is their responsibility to tell me that if I leave the company I will have to repay these hours.

If I had known that, I wouldn't have taken the annual leave.

They didn't inform me of that.

So when I saw I had 21 days available to take, I just thought I could take them at any stage of the year.

Of course you can take them at any stage of the year - as long as you stay for that year (or at least the appropriate length of time to entitle you to have taken 2 weeks of holiday).

I asked my manager could I take the annual leave at that stage. Surely she should have said : you only have so much annual leave built up, so you can only take 2 days?

This was your manager being appropriately flexible, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to take a weeks leave until months into the job.

And why not inform me at any stage that If I left the company I would have to repay these hours.

Surely it is their responsibility to tell me that if I leave the company I will have to repay these hours.

It's not your company or manager's responsibility to tell you about all sorts of things that might happen, just in case they do.

I mean, if you think about it for even a minute, is it reasonable to think that you could work a job for 2 months and get 1 year's worth of leave entitlement during that time?

Is there the option to work those days that you have to pay back instead?

TickledCrimson · 28/02/2023 11:01

Of course they can do that. I’ve had it done to me before. I’m not sure why you even have to ask.

Hollyhead · 28/02/2023 11:01

Did you take any holiday between November and December? If not then you would have acruused a couple of days in that time that you might be able to negotiate a bit of offsetting with. Also did you leave without working notice? It’s still the end of February, this has all happened quite quickly.

theemmadilemma · 28/02/2023 11:01

Put her straight then.

I'm guessing you're really quite young. I feel a bit sorry for you.

It's sad that people are entering the work force not knowing this, probably speaks of a generation though.

CinnamonSodaPop · 28/02/2023 11:02

Ah that is so shit. Sadly it is how it works. Tell them you can't afford to pay it outright and ask for a payment plan. Check your contract too to make sure it states that-- if it doesn't you can point that out and hopefully get more leverage for a payment plan.

Sorry OP :-(

Bearonthestair · 28/02/2023 11:02

Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 10:57

No. She is talking about taking the FULL years allowance. I can see what she is writing in the group chat. She thinks she is entitled to it. She also doesn't understand.

Show quote history

How can she take full leave for a year when it's not even March!! Who's going to let her use all her holidays in March. Come on. This is a wind up