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AIBU?

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Original poster

Company wants me to pay back holiday days.

562 replies

Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 09:55

I started in a job in November 2022. We have an online annual leave system .
At the start of January 2023, 21 days on our online system became available to me for me to take.

I asked my manager could I take two weeks off at the start of the year. I took the last week of January and the first week of February off. This was approved by my manager. I took them. I was then moved to a new manager. Which was the way the company worked. New starters were with one manager. After two months you were changed to another manager

The company was pretty abusive and at the end of February I decided to leave.

I left. I then got an email from my second manager saying I had taken more annual leave days in the time I worked there, then I had accrued. And that I have to pay this annual leave money back. It is 550 euro. I'm in Ireland. This is a lot of money to me as i am now in between jobs.

Can they do this. My first manager who approved the annual leave days, never told me that I did not have enough annual leave days to take. She approved them. She never told me at any stage that if I left the company that I would have to pay these annual leave days back. If I had known that I wouldn't have taken them .

Can they do this to me now?

OP posts:
MotherOfPuffling · 28/02/2023 16:10

I’m still confused as to how anyone could think working a few days somewhere gives you a full annual leave allowance. So what, work at one company for two months and take four weeks paid holiday in that time? Then again at the the next company, and so on? So effectively get 6 months paid leave a year? Of course it doesn’t work like that.
It should have been in the contract but they are sometimes worded very badly and lack clarity. This is the kind of thing that should be covered under basics during onboarding tbh, just to prevent this kind of thing. Takes seconds to mention and have a slide covering it. It seems so obvious that it’s often not covered, but is important for new entrants to the workforce and people who, like op, get confused by such things.

rwalker · 28/02/2023 16:12

Of course you have to pay them back
that allowance is if you worked the full year
you haven’t you owe them

it’s common sense your contract will probably state your yearly allowance

You wouldn’t expect the full annual salary if you haven’t worked the full year same for your holiday allowance

jannier · 28/02/2023 16:15

Contracts generally say something like 24 days accrued at 2 days a month.... obviously if you don't earn 24 days holiday you don't get paid 24 days holiday.

Blackmetalmama · 28/02/2023 16:16

OP I think people are being unnecessarily harsh to you. You've admitted time and time again that you went about it the wrong way and that it isnt their fault that you owe the holiday pay.

It sounds like a toxic, exploitative environment and I dont blame you for leaving as you did. It sounds like you were totally worn down and nobody should have to put up with that. .

I hope you find a new job soon. Work put a payment plan and pay this company off over time, even if it takes you a year, at least you are out of that environment. Good luck OP, I hope things look brighter soon.

Ceryneianhind · 28/02/2023 16:18

Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 13:10

Are you serious . How on earth is that my choice. It is not my choice at all.

My shift finishes at 5.30pm. I am told by my boss that I have to answer any call that comes in at 5.28.pm I am told if I do not answer a call, I will be fired for this.

My shift ends at 5.30. i am told by my boss that I must answer a call at 5.28. Each call goes on for average 15 minutes. Plus it will take about 6 mins after this call to finish up the system work on it.

My shift finishes at 5.30 yet I am told by my boss that I must answer a 15 min call at 5. 28pm. So I must stay an unpaid half an hour later. And you're saying that it's my choice?

Show quote history

5.28 answer call
5.30 very sorry, I have to go now as my shift has ended. Yes I understand it's very frustrating, however, I am not currently being paid to talk to you. Have a nice evening
Hang up

Original poster
Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 16:21

Ceryneianhind · 28/02/2023 16:18

5.28 answer call
5.30 very sorry, I have to go now as my shift has ended. Yes I understand it's very frustrating, however, I am not currently being paid to talk to you. Have a nice evening
Hang up

Show quote history

We are not allowed to do that.

We are not allowed to hang up on any single call. They can see if we hang up on any call.

If we hang up on any call we are told that we will be fired instantly.

OP posts:
Rachie1973 · 28/02/2023 16:24

Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 10:02

Yes but they never informed me about any of this at any stage.

I was a bit naive as I had been off work for a while. So when I saw I had 21 days available to take, I just thought I could take them at any stage of the year.

I asked my manager could I take the annual leave at that stage. Surely she should have said : you only have so much annual leave built up, so you can only take 2 days?

Why let me take two weeks?
And why not inform me at any stage that If I left the company I would have to repay these hours.

Surely it is their responsibility to tell me that if I leave the company I will have to repay these hours.

If I had known that, I wouldn't have taken the annual leave.

They didn't inform me of that.

They’re not obliged to tell you! They’d assume you were going to work the year. Most companies operate like this.

you owe the money.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 28/02/2023 16:25

Ceryneianhind · 28/02/2023 16:18

5.28 answer call
5.30 very sorry, I have to go now as my shift has ended. Yes I understand it's very frustrating, however, I am not currently being paid to talk to you. Have a nice evening
Hang up

Show quote history

That’s terrible advice and shows you’ve never worked in a call center. Please don’t offer this kind of nonsense.

LaurieFairyCake · 28/02/2023 16:26

They can see if you hang up a call - how would that be different from finishing a call Confused

That company sounds SHIT

BadNomad · 28/02/2023 16:27

Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 15:57

Thanks. Again, I wouldn't have quit if I wasn't abused into the ground Hopefully you never feel bad enough in any job that you feel that you can't physically survive one more day. I was just talking to one of the women I used to work with. And she said she is going off on sick leave until she gets a new job as she physically and mentally can't do one more day.

I think 9 hours of calls.
20 seconds between calls.
No breaks.
Filling four tech systems in at one time.
Being berated by the quality team if tech system is not filled in perfectly, even though there is no time to do it.
Having three managers about at you if you miss a call.
Having three managers shout at you and publicly call you out if you take a minute over your assigned toilet time (which is five minutes a day).
Having people listen to your calls and scream at you if they are not deemed to be up to quality standard (even though you are exhausted on these calls and you are filling in system work from the last call).

Would take it out of anyone. It's not sustainable . I do regret quitting the way I did only because ive left myself with a financial burden. I should have worked it out better. But man I hated that job. I visited family while I was working that job and they say they were shocked at my appearance. And ag how bad I had gone done mentally since taking the job

Show quote history

Eh? I was just pointing out you have breached your contract. The reasons won't matter if your ex-employer wants to pursue it. Contracts are there for a reason. Did you resign correctly? Did you give them notice in writing or however they require it? If you've just stopped turning up, you haven't quit. They will be forced to take disciplinary action and fire you. If you have quit, and you plan to claim UC, your entitlement will be affected because you have intentionally made yourself unemployed. Make sure you know what you've gotten yourself into.

BadNomad · 28/02/2023 16:28

Oh never mind, you're in Ireland. I don't know how their unemployment benefits work.

Original poster
Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 16:29

BadNomad · 28/02/2023 16:27

Eh? I was just pointing out you have breached your contract. The reasons won't matter if your ex-employer wants to pursue it. Contracts are there for a reason. Did you resign correctly? Did you give them notice in writing or however they require it? If you've just stopped turning up, you haven't quit. They will be forced to take disciplinary action and fire you. If you have quit, and you plan to claim UC, your entitlement will be affected because you have intentionally made yourself unemployed. Make sure you know what you've gotten yourself into.

Show quote history

They also breached my contract by my being never able to take a single break that I was supposed to be able to take.

I fully expect to have to pay back all the money. But I am still going to point out to the manager in an email that I worked through every single break while I was there. So I worked for one hour unpaid every day .

OP posts:
IncompleteSenten · 28/02/2023 16:30

You should talk to ACAS about the working conditions, see what they have to say. If you are being put under pressure to not take your breaks that's not ok. It's all well and good people saying you should be able to do 1, 2, 3 but if in reality your employees are making that impossible for you through intimidation then it's not unreasonable to view that as them 'preventing' you from taking breaks.

If you have their bad practices to throw back at them you may be in a stronger position to negotiate an affordable repayment plan.

CustardySergeant · 28/02/2023 16:30

Pleasecreateausername13 · 28/02/2023 10:22

Any adult that works in the modern world knows this is how annual leave works.

I’m really struggling to understand how you don’t know this?

Exactly! As a PP said, it's "bleedin' obvious!"

BadNomad · 28/02/2023 16:31

They also breached my contract by my being never able to take a single break that I was supposed to be able to take.

Did you follow the correct procedures to address this? Did you contact HR?

saltinesandcoffeecups · 28/02/2023 16:31

Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 16:29

They also breached my contract by my being never able to take a single break that I was supposed to be able to take.

I fully expect to have to pay back all the money. But I am still going to point out to the manager in an email that I worked through every single break while I was there. So I worked for one hour unpaid every day .

Show quote history

You can keep saying all of this and while it might be true…your time to address it was when, you know, you worked there.

IncompleteSenten · 28/02/2023 16:32

Employers not employees

Johnisafckface · 28/02/2023 16:32

At many companies I've worked at this is standard. If you leave before you have worked a certain amount of days/weeks then they can try to recoup any leave/vacation time they gave. That's why many companies where I live do not allow any extended vacation/leave time until after a certain time there so that this doesn't happen.

Original poster
Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 16:34

saltinesandcoffeecups · 28/02/2023 16:31

You can keep saying all of this and while it might be true…your time to address it was when, you know, you worked there.

Show quote history

As I've said, I did address it while I worked there. I said to two managers that I was not able to take any breaks due to the workload. I asked that we get scheduled administration time. They said no.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 16:35

The one good thing about that job, is that now I've left I really appreciate my freedom more than I did before it.

The joy of being able to move around!
The joy of being able to go to the bathroom when I need to!

OP posts:
Yoyooo · 28/02/2023 16:41

20 seconds between calls is long enough to put yourself in a break status.

AuroraForever · 28/02/2023 16:42

Have you responded to the email yet? If not, don’t be in a rush to respond right now. Leave it a day or two to clear and calm your head. Do you have Citizens Advice in Ireland (sorry, basic, but I’ve no idea!)? Here’s a link to the England one which gives good advice www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/after-leaving-your-job/if-your-employer-says-you-owe-them-money/
You say your contract etc was online which you now don’t have access to. So when your head is clear, respond and ask for a copy of the contract you signed and a copy of your holiday record and ask how they calculated what you owe them and why. This puts the onus on them to go away and get the information. Plus gives you a bit more breathing space to go away and find out the best way to negotiate paying it back if you really do owe it.

Killingmytime · 28/02/2023 16:43

Sorry i also did a similar job i had even less time between calls and it was all day.
if you worked over 6 hours you are entitled to a break, if you’ve never bought it up with them how are they too know now?

Original poster
Mooshamoo · 28/02/2023 16:45

Yoyooo · 28/02/2023 16:41

20 seconds between calls is long enough to put yourself in a break status.

I've said before I put myself in break status on the call centre system . That didn't mean I get to take a break. When I put myself in "break" on the call centre system ,

I was still logged into the other technical system and I was still doing work on there. I had to do it to keep on top of the work. Again none of my team has ever been able to take a single break. They all said they have to work through every break, it is not just me

OP posts:
Killingmytime · 28/02/2023 16:45

too soon, it will be in the contract also unfortunately regarding holiday.
they will give you your annual leave entitlement, but if you leave early you will owe them.