Company wants me to pay back holiday days.

[Mooshamoo]

I started in a job in November 2022. We have an online annual leave system .
At the start of January 2023, 21 days on our online system became available to me for me to take.

I asked my manager could I take two weeks off at the start of the year. I took the last week of January and the first week of February off. This was approved by my manager. I took them. I was then moved to a new manager. Which was the way the company worked. New starters were with one manager. After two months you were changed to another manager

The company was pretty abusive and at the end of February I decided to leave.

I left. I then got an email from my second manager saying I had taken more annual leave days in the time I worked there, then I had accrued. And that I have to pay this annual leave money back. It is 550 euro. I'm in Ireland. This is a lot of money to me as i am now in between jobs.

Can they do this. My first manager who approved the annual leave days, never told me that I did not have enough annual leave days to take. She approved them. She never told me at any stage that if I left the company that I would have to pay these annual leave days back. If I had known that I wouldn't have taken them .

Can they do this to me now?

Op- Seriously if you can't take breaks then you should be looking into constructive dismissal.

If you was doing the unpaid overtime did it take you below minimum wage ?

It will be on your contract. They don’t need to tell you things which are in your contract or employee handbook as by signing the contract, you have agreed to everything.

Sounds like a stressful company. I can almost guess which one!

Annual leave is based on time worked as you know. Some companies do allow you to take more than currently worked up, usually done in good faith. Usually if someone hands in their notice , they will work a notice period. The holidays overpaid would be deducted off the final payslip. That's probably why you don't hear too many people owing physical money back.

It sounds like you quit outright and gave no notice? Unfortunately because that was also on pay day that left you in a negative balance.

Could you just work out the hours that you owe back? They are obviously desperate for staff so might accept that offer.
Horrible I know but if you haven't got a new job yet at least it would mean you are not paying out money from savings.

Google "Citizens Information" online and they have all the information about employment rights and entitlement. It's a good idea so you can manage these situations in future. It also holds information about breaks etc.

Employers must abide by the laws but it's not their responsibility to educate employees on it, so it's best to inform yourself and be prepared.

Best of luck I hope you find a way to work it out and be done with it. And I hope you find a nicer environment in the next job!

Ah the rest of the posts have now appeared on my phone, before it was only showing the first few pages - I can see you are now aware of this. It definitely sounds like you are better off out of there, what a horrible place!

Unfortunately we live and learn by our mistakes. I do hope you find somewhere that appreciates you soon.

@Coffeellama if your system is really as you have described and the workload that ridiculous then the best thing you could do is contact the Employment Service and raise a complaint and claim constructive dismissal due to excessive working conditions. This may force the company to re-think trying to recoup the annual leave monies from you. In any event I would also email your manager and the managers manager and say that you are going to do this as it may also prompt them to allow you to leave without any repercussions.

Oh this thread is chaos !

I feel for you OP as that is a horrible situation. I’d ask for a copy of my contract just to confirm it is in there but like everyone has said it probably is.

I would suggest asking them if you can pay back in instalments as you can’t pay them what you don’t have. Ideally it would have been better to not leave without notice either as they could deduct that too, but we live and learn. Good luck for job hunting.

We have something similar happening in my office but the person is still employed here. Individuals need to take accountability of knowing what benefits are allotted to them (especially in the beginning of a new job) and not just depend on a piece of paper.

At the very least get them to agree to a payment plan rather than agreeing to pay in one hit.

21 days available were for the full year. If you left the company and took more annual leave you need to repay the company that is pretty standard.

I would speak to an employment specialist before agreeing to any repayment plan.

If you’ve worked extra hours unpaid that effectively takes you below minimum wage, then you have a valid counter claim and should argue that the company owes you money.

In the meantime, report them to the Revenue for the outstanding tax that they haven’t paid from all the hours owed to you.

Were you member of a union? If so I would contact them about the work conditions and that you had to leave due to these.

Do you have a contract? And is it covered in your contract? Or your employee handbook? If you have neither, and it's not mentioned in either, you could have grounds for tribunal possibly.

For me, it's outlined in my contract.

You seem hell bent on the company taking responsibility for everything; it is your responsibility to read your contract, know your rights and factor in consequences of your actions. I can't believe you're in your late 30's and are this unwilling to take responsibility for yourself.

It doesn't matter how bad an employer they are, you still have to pay them back their money. If anything, being this bad an employer with such a high turnover almost certainly means they will see a lot of this type of thing and have specialists ready to retrieve what's owe them from former employees.

Yes you unfortunately do owe them some holiday pay back. This link might help you calculate what's the legal minimum you are entitled to from your workplace:

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/annual_leave_public_holidays.html

The OP realised she owes the money about 15 pages ago.

😂😂

it's about giving OP encouragement now and not to panic.

Frankly, I think you're in quite a good position, assuming the money is on your account - because you owe them but they have nothing they can deduct it from. So i would get advice from the Irish equivalent of ACAS and see if you can come to an arrangement where you don't blow the whistle on their (frankly disgusting) employment practices, and they don't chase you for money.

But yy to the suggestion that you ask them to send you a copy of the contract and employee handbook. That way if they do send you a formal notification, in writing, that you owe them money, you can check if that is actually covered. If not, you're laughing (maybe). If yes, that's the time to mention unpaid overtime and lack of breaks. Not sure if you have minimum wage rules, but I'd definitely look into that.

You've breached your contract by not working your notice period. They might come after you for that too.

@YellowDaffodillie has given good advice, I'd follow that
Let's hope whoever was digging around what the company was up to doesn't give up
Best wishes for the future @Mooshamoo , don't let the bastards get you down

Well this thread is a shitshow…

to sum up…

• The OP should have read her contract
• Even without reading the contract, she should have applied some common sense to the AL allotment
• OP needs to contact a former coworker in the WhatsApp group and get a copy of the AL policy
• The OP now needs to contact HR to get the scoop on what they are saying she owes + make payment arrangements
• The OP needs to find a new job perhaps at one of the cushy WFH call center jobs her friends have
• Once new job is secured OP needs to download, read, and keep a copy of the contract

Thanks. Again, I wouldn't have quit if I wasn't abused into the ground Hopefully you never feel bad enough in any job that you feel that you can't physically survive one more day. I was just talking to one of the women I used to work with. And she said she is going off on sick leave until she gets a new job as she physically and mentally can't do one more day.

I think 9 hours of calls.
20 seconds between calls.
No breaks.
Filling four tech systems in at one time.
Being berated by the quality team if tech system is not filled in perfectly, even though there is no time to do it.
Having three managers about at you if you miss a call.
Having three managers shout at you and publicly call you out if you take a minute over your assigned toilet time (which is five minutes a day).
Having people listen to your calls and scream at you if they are not deemed to be up to quality standard (even though you are exhausted on these calls and you are filling in system work from the last call).

Would take it out of anyone. It's not sustainable . I do regret quitting the way I did only because ive left myself with a financial burden. I should have worked it out better. But man I hated that job. I visited family while I was working that job and they say they were shocked at my appearance. And ag how bad I had gone done mentally since taking the job

I haven’t read the whole thread (apologies) only the first few pages and last 2.

in fairness OP - I would not have known how annual leave entitlement was accrued in my first job. And yes, it would have been in my contract, which I guess I did nominally read, but… would I have understood and remembered all of it at that point ? Not sure.

So, a harsh way to learn about this, but what’s done is done. And no need for a pile on here !

As others have said too- in terms of working conditions that sounds horrendous and not right. I’m sure you should be entitled to more than 5 mins to go pee…

If what you are saying about no breaks and unpaid overtime you should contact www.workplacerelations.ie/en/ or The Labour Relations Committee www.lrc.ie/
You may have a case for constructive dismissal

Yes. www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/dismissal/constructive_dismissal.html