To refuse to pay nursery notice period fee in these circumstances?

[rsarw]

Posted a week ago about my 12 month old DS' nursery, which we're pulling him out of after a week after seening evidence of substandard care (examples listed below).

Their usual notice period is 2 months, for which we'd be liable for fees, but as we're pulling him out after 1 week becuase we're concerned the care is substandard surely we should only pay for the sessions he's actually had.

Keen to hear thoughts.

Examples of poor care:

babies being left to it/ not picked up or comforted when crying, multiple times - I’ve had to resist the urge to comfort them myself. It’s possible they were eventually picked up after I left but it went on for a good 5 mins and staff seemed to completely ignore it.

Very little staff interaction with babies, staff are rarely on the floor playing or interacting with them. Babies are desperate for attention so swarm me when I come in.

little girl fell off a bike toy badly, hitting her head. Member of staff didn’t know what to do and had to be told by another multiple times to apply a cold compress. She then picked DS up and put him on the same toy
despite the fact he’s not old enough and his key worker had to take him off it.

staff heating milk too hot for babies, and other staff member noticing and reminding them they needed to check it. Baby could presumably have burnt mouth if other staff hadn’t stepped in.

DS incredibly thirsty on return from first proper day, hadn’t had his milk, assuming also hadn’t had water.

staff expressing slight contempt for babies eg X does that for attention, ‘they throw themselves at the floor to getus to come over’

my son’s key worker hardly interacting with him at his settling sessions, not noticing/ leaving him to cry on the floor when upset (when I was there).

communication with me not good, when asking how the day/ session was or calling for an update they will just say ‘he seems ok’ or ‘he’s doing well’, then when I ask if he’s been crying it turns out he has.

staff seem very focussed on completing tasks eg nappies and meals and naps and app updates but not on general engagement with the babies. I get nursery is 3:1 and will inevitably be less attentive but it feels like the staff actively avoid the babies to try and get them to expect less and be more self sufficient.

Won't they take you to small claims court ? I understand why you don't want to pay but you signed a contract.

I think it’s worth talking to them and asking them to kindly come to an agreement but if you signed a contract then that may very well be what they have every right to hold you to.

How have you seen all of this happen? Have you stayed with son whilst he’s there and did you not pick up on anything during settling in sessions?

Over how many minutes did you observe all that, OP?

You have to check the law because sometimes you get a cooling off period after signing a contract, but whether it applies in this case I don’t know. Otherwise, you could threaten them with calling ofsted.

When have you seen that? When you are collecting?

Yes, how are you seeing all this and what proof do you have?
Because, although on the face of it, it sounds awful, if you're only there, as you should be, for a couple of minutes, then you don't have a full picture.
In any case, they are just going to say you're making false accusations in order to get off paying them.

Saw it myself over the course of 2 settling in sessions, and 2 drop offs where I stayed with hiim for 10/15 mins at the start. And yes, the list of examples was mostly picked up at the settling sessions.

Over 2 settling in sessions where I stayed, and 2 drop offs where I stayed for about 10/ 15 mins.

You've signed a contract so are required to pay the notice.

Have you spoken to them about the things you've seen? What did they say?

I don’t think you can refuse to pay. As PP says, when you saw babies being left to cry was this when you were collecting yours?

how do you know they make milk too hot? A lot of the things you’ve witnessed didn’t happen to your child - eg it wasn’t their head who got hurt when they fell of their bike.

i don’t think the nursery will void your bill because you noticed another child hurt and that other babies had hot milk.

I appreciate all nurseries are different and some are “good” and some are “bad” but Your child has been there a week. They will be unsettled and you will think he’s not being attended to, but I’m sure his tears are because he misses you and it’s all new to him.

See responses to other posts re. how long I;ve spend in there. In terms of proof, I only have my / my partner's (also came to the settling sessions) against theirs. I suppose the question is whether the will choose to be amicable on the basis I know a lot of the parents there, and concern that I will submit a complaint to OFSTED, etc.

I’d have thought settling in sessions would be to see if the nursery is a good fit for you and it clearly isn’t. Did they ask you to sign a contract before these sessions?

I hope you can get out of this contract if so, please raise your concerns with the nursery, and have you checked their ofsted report?

You should complain regardless if you think children are not being properly cared for.

Is there any trial period -where you can pull out? If you express your concerns to the manager, it may be that they will let you off the terms of the contract.

Yes, if they can’t come up with an amicable compromise please speak to ofsted. Good luck

So, silly question, but if you saw most of this unsatisfactory care at the two settling in sessions, why on earth did you then leave your child there unattended? It can't have been that bad if you chose to take him back and leave him there.

If this is how it is in front of a parent I dress to think how bad it is when there isn’t a witness

It sounds dreadful. Def pull your ds out. I’m not sure you’ll get away with not paying but you need to make a complaint to Ofsted

*dread

you should be reporting to Ofsted anyway if you have concerns.

Absolutely will be reporting to Ofsted.

No need to be snarky. I asked at 12.07 and you resounded to other people at 12.08

I've just read your other thread. You only respond to the "oh Hun that's shit and I've seen it so many times you're right" replies and ignored anyone else.

So, to avoid your contractual obligations, if there is no cooling off period, I expect you'll have to go down the making a formal complaint to the LA, (if appropriate) OFSTED, and, if necessary, the police.

You say you know a lot of other people at the nursery. Maybe they have seen all this malpractice too. Are they leaving and refusing to pay do you think?

Quite.

@rsarw
Oh good. They sound awful .

I’d tell them exactly why, in writing dates/times of what you’ve seen and inform them that you will be sending your child or paying any notice. If they try to make it difficult for you about this tell them you’ll make sure you inform ofsted and be very vocal on any social media/ site reviews if they persist. They’d have to chase you in a small claims court, and there’s no way they’ll want to try that because of the bad publicity.
should it ever go to court (highly unlikely) that written record would be your proof of their breech of contract to provide adequate care.