Page 5 | What will happen if I'm behind on paying for the trip?

UndertheCedartree · 2023-02-25T10:17:03+00:00

Really worrying about this. I have spoken to school about it but not been given a response. So just wanted to see what is usual procedure. In December I signed my DD up for the Y6 residential trip. In January we found out the cost - £350 😮 A payment plan was set up for those who couldn't afford to pay it outright. £50 in Jan, £100 in Feb, £100 in March, £50 in April and £50 in May. Trip is end of June. I'm on a low income and I'm struggling with the payments. I've paid the £50 for Jan and I've saved up £30 so far for the February payment. Will my DD not be allowed to go if I haven't paid it all by May or even June? It would crush her. I wouldn't not pay but I wish it could have been spread out longer to pay. £100 out of a month's budget is so much! It's my DC's birthdays in March and April and I had a large unexpected expense in January too 😥

MajorCarolDanvers · 25/02/2023 14:21

Please talk to school

They should have discretionary grants available to support and at the very least the option of spreading the payments further.

But you need to talk to them

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 14:25

WombatChocolate · 25/02/2023 13:04

I think this all comes back to government failure to properly resource schools again.

Schools want to run these trips as they have huge value for the kids. However, with a requirement to make payments voluntary, they are faced with a big bill they have to pay, when parents sign up and then don’t pay, or when their sources of funding to help those struggling run out. In covering this bill (which is often not known exactly in size in advance) the school have to remove spending on books, teachers, other stuff, because they can’t spend on both. It’s shocking.

Increasingly these trips won’t run. Too many won’t be able to afford them and schools won’t be able to afford to subsidise places. They will have to prioritise books and teachers. How awful. Because OPs DD would hugely benefit from this trip and it’s vital that there is funding to help her attend.

Don’t all blame the school. There are likely to be a variety of reasons why the information and payment plan wasn’t available sooner. It is likely the school has had a number if requests for help and is digging around to try and make sure the trip can go ahead, even though they can’t be sure how much parental contribution will come in. This is on the government for not funding properly. They are putting the schools and OP in this position which none of them should be finding themselves in.

Oh, I agree, it definitely comes back to that. And I'm sure school will help, and along with the ideas on here for me, I'm hopeful it can be sorted.

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ancientgran · 25/02/2023 14:25

Poscapen · 25/02/2023 13:33

She has also said that she's going to contact them again. :-)

Show quote history

Yes she has said that but you said, People are assuming that the school won't help, but Op hasn't contacted them yet. She has contacted them so your statement was incorrect and I was clarifying. If you meant she hasn't contacted them again that wasn't what you said.

Hobbitlover · 25/02/2023 14:25

Our school has say no child who wants to go will be left behind on our p7 trip, so they will help any paremt unable to fund the whole thing.

Hope you get something sorted.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 14:26

Locsup183 · 25/02/2023 13:09

You sound really lovely and such a good mum. I hope you get through to the school and it all gets sorted and your DD has a brilliant time.

Thank you, that is so kind and I hope so too.

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monomatapea · 25/02/2023 14:29

Do you get child benefit? Could you use that? Weather is getting warmer now so less heating costs to cover

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 14:30

pleasehelpwi3 · 25/02/2023 13:30

As a primary teacher here, I know our head does move heaven and earth to enable 100% attendance on residentials, but you need to ask him/her, and not this forum. Good Luck.

Thank you and as I said, I've already spoken to school and alongside that this forum has been incredibly helpful.

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Mischance · 25/02/2023 14:32

I am governor at a primary school. Pupil Premium can be used for "educational trips" - we also have a very active PSA who subsidises where needed - this is done confidentially via the head and the PSA do not know which pupil it is given for.

Michaelmonstera · 25/02/2023 14:34

I haven’t read the full thread. Is the school trip happening in term time?

The rules for Residential Visits are

Schools can charge for board and lodging but the charge must not exceed the actual cost.

Schools cannot charge for:
education on any visit during school hours;

education outside school hours that is part of the national curriculum or for a public exam;

the cost of supply teachers who cover for those teachers who are on the residential visit.

Schools must make it clear that parents who are in receipt of certain state benefits will be exempt from the cost of board and lodging. The ‘eligibility criteria’ is aligned to that of free school meals.

Education partly during school hours

A school can only charge for activities outside school hours. However, no charge can be made for activities outside school hours if they are part of the national curriculum, a syllabus for a prescribed public examination or religious education.

If 50% or more of the activity time is during school hours, it is deemed to take place during school hours and no charge can be made. Travel time counts in this activity but school hours do not include lunch time.

If less than 50% of the time on the activity is during school hours, the whole trip is deemed to take place outside school hours and the school can charge – for example, an evening trip that leaves school an hour before school ends.

For residential visits, if the number of school sessions taken up by the visit is 50% or more of the ‘half days’ spent on the visit, it is deemed to take place during school hours (even if some activities take place late in the evening). The school day is required to be split into 2 sessions regardless of start or finish times. A ‘ half day’ means any period of 12 hours ending with noon or midnight on any day.

Example: A trip from Wednesday 12 noon to Sunday 9pm will count as 9 half days with 5 school sessions and so will be deemed to take place during school hours. Whereas a trip from Thursday 12 noon until Sunday 9pm will count as 7 half days with 3 school sessions and will be treated as taking place outside school hours.

childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/charging-for-school-activities/

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 14:36

gamerchick · 25/02/2023 13:34

We've always had to pay for residentials. If a school takes a few kids sking for 3 grand you don't kick up a stink if you can't afford it.

Day trips where all the kids go on are a different matter. Not all the kids will be going to this.

All schools should say what the cost is upfront though. Ours does before you put kids name down.

I would imagine most of them will be including my DD's best friends. I'll do whatever I can to make sure she doesn't miss out. She's struggled recently with her mental health due to Long Covid and the fact she's even being brave enough to want to go on this trip is amazing. This is the trip they all look forward to happening after their SATs. It's very much a rite of passage as they finish Primary. I know it still comes up in conversation with adult friends where we went on our Y6 residential.

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Florissant · 25/02/2023 14:38

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 11:12

I always find these types of replies bizarre. On a thread where people have given lots of helpful advice - someone comes on to inform the OP that noone will be able to give them advice contrary to the evidence!

If you're not able to give advice, fine. But please don't try and police what I can ask for advice with . As I have said I have contacted school.

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People can reply however they want. Like it or not, that is the nature of chat forums.

Bleese · 25/02/2023 14:39

The school I work at would let you go. All we really ask is communication.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 14:39

NotaClue541 · 25/02/2023 13:35

Primary school head here. I have several of these conversations every year and my response is always the same - of course she will go, we would never ever stop her from going because you couldn't pay. Please dont worry. However, these trips cripple our budget just like your family budget so please pay whatever you can. I've also had families continue paying after the trip.
Hopefully you will get a similar response 🙂

I can absolute pay but just need a bit longer. I'm going to ask what things they will need for the trip too so they can be birthday presents.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 14:40

Ruth98 · 25/02/2023 13:36

This may not help you now but a suggestion for the future that you could pass on to school. We have parent pay at my daughter's school and if there's a trip / party / event we log in to pay for it and we always have the option to part pay, pay in full and also pay extra to support another family. If we have the spare money we tend to add another £5 etc as we know it will go into the pot to confidentially pay towards another family. It's a great way to do it as some parents put £100 in, others put £1 extra in, some put nothing extra in but there's no pressure.

That does sound good. I'm pretty sure we don't have that option.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 14:43

PrincessScarlett · 25/02/2023 13:56

You need to go straight to the head teacher not pastoral care or senco. Ask for a meeting to explain your situation. Our local school won't refuse anyone attendance based on parents inability to pay. A friend of mine managed to negotiate half the cost of the trip for her child. The school will have some sort of funding set aside for those parents that are in financial hardship.

Pastoral care are really good at the school. I think it would be more appropriate to speak to the head of year and lead for the trip rather than the Head, tbh.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 14:45

JMSA · 25/02/2023 14:01

You must have been given some idea of cost when you signed up for it, and £350 is the going rate for a residential trip.
You definitely need to get proactive and speak to the school.

We were told in the region of £300. I'm not denying it's the going rate but it's still a lot. And I have got proactive and spoken to the school plus sought advice here.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 14:46

IncessantNameChanger · 25/02/2023 14:02

I told school I was struggling to pay for a year 10 trip and they extended the payment period for me.

That's good to hear.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 14:51

monomatapea · 25/02/2023 14:29

Do you get child benefit? Could you use that? Weather is getting warmer now so less heating costs to cover

I do yes. Had to use most of this month's on shoes and school uniform for DD. Next month I need it for her birthday but will get things she needs for the trip.

It's actually freezing here at the moment! But I can't really afford to put the heating on much anyway. I have to put it on once a week to dry the washing but avoid otherwise. Luckily, we have a heated throw which helps!

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 15:28

Michaelmonstera · 25/02/2023 14:34

I haven’t read the full thread. Is the school trip happening in term time?

The rules for Residential Visits are

Schools can charge for board and lodging but the charge must not exceed the actual cost.

Schools cannot charge for:
education on any visit during school hours;

education outside school hours that is part of the national curriculum or for a public exam;

the cost of supply teachers who cover for those teachers who are on the residential visit.

Schools must make it clear that parents who are in receipt of certain state benefits will be exempt from the cost of board and lodging. The ‘eligibility criteria’ is aligned to that of free school meals.

Education partly during school hours

A school can only charge for activities outside school hours. However, no charge can be made for activities outside school hours if they are part of the national curriculum, a syllabus for a prescribed public examination or religious education.

If 50% or more of the activity time is during school hours, it is deemed to take place during school hours and no charge can be made. Travel time counts in this activity but school hours do not include lunch time.

If less than 50% of the time on the activity is during school hours, the whole trip is deemed to take place outside school hours and the school can charge – for example, an evening trip that leaves school an hour before school ends.

For residential visits, if the number of school sessions taken up by the visit is 50% or more of the ‘half days’ spent on the visit, it is deemed to take place during school hours (even if some activities take place late in the evening). The school day is required to be split into 2 sessions regardless of start or finish times. A ‘ half day’ means any period of 12 hours ending with noon or midnight on any day.

Example: A trip from Wednesday 12 noon to Sunday 9pm will count as 9 half days with 5 school sessions and so will be deemed to take place during school hours. Whereas a trip from Thursday 12 noon until Sunday 9pm will count as 7 half days with 3 school sessions and will be treated as taking place outside school hours.

childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/charging-for-school-activities/

They are going on a Sunday back on Wednesday so most is in school time.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 25/02/2023 15:30

Florissant · 25/02/2023 14:38

People can reply however they want. Like it or not, that is the nature of chat forums.

Show quote history

They can, just as I can reply however I want.

OP posts:

Trinidading3 · 25/02/2023 15:38

Don't stress ...talk to school on Monday explain the situation, more than likely they will be able to help you with funds from the school pot of money they might have.....also have you heard of Gofundme have a look a way of community helping good causes....as this isn't a large amount of money you need...I'm feel positive that if you set up the Gofundme for this trip the general public will be more than want to help you.....have a look at the website..... good luck and don't stress....😉

PinkFrogss · 25/02/2023 15:57

Were you planning on having any sort of birthday party for DD? If so that might be another area to save money - she’s a good age for sleepover, film and oven pizzas and snacks instead of a paid activity for example.

ninjafoodienovice · 25/02/2023 16:59

Sorry you're in this situation.

I would be very surprised as your DC is on Pp that they won't subsidise the cost for you.
I'm the treasurer for our schools PTA and if we got a request to help out financially for the residential we absolutely would.

So make sure you have formally approached the school with your difficulties
Ie a letter to the head teacher not just 'mentioned to a teacher'

And if there's no joy please approach the PTA

And don't ask for donations from grandparents for her birthday- she's allowed to have birthday presents too

ChickenDhansak82 · 25/02/2023 17:02

I'm a teacher.

Any trip taken during school time can only ask for VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTIONS. The letter should have said that.

(However... if too many people cannot provide the voluntary contribution, then the trip gets cancelled).

You need to remind the school of this.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/706830/Charging_for_school_activities.pdf

(Read P6)

mumyes · 25/02/2023 17:58

Just to add to others, OP, you do sound like an amazing mum. The cost of living atm is bonkers, and you are doing bloody well to be keeping this how on the road with kids for what you've said.

Lovely post by @NotaClue541 - I know our (lovely) head teacher would never see a child left out because of finances either.