To worry about Kate Forbes becoming first minister

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Abortion and LGBT rights have been something that have largely not been part of political debate for at least the last 10 years. Gay marriage was enacted in 2014 and was broadly supported. The last serious challenge to abortion rights was at the start of the coalition government with Nadine Dorries et all. However, broadly gay rights and abortion rights have been settled issues- it has almost been taboo for politicians to oppose them. Certainly, there hasn’t been any serious possibility over the last decade (at least) of any rowing back on abortion, gay marriage, gay adoption, divorce law etc.

However, it is clear that in the heart of hearts of Forbes she disagrees with all these things due to her beliefs as an evangelical Christian. By all accounts she was very competent as a minister and has been a good MSP. However, as first minister she will be a figurehead for Scotland as well as setting the tone for policy and political discourse. Also, unlike Rees-Mogg and DUP types, Kate Forbes seems like an otherwise sensible, competent, ‘normal’ politician.

My concern is Forbes being the leader of Scotland could normalise her views on these issues. While I don’t believe abortion or gay marriage face immediate threat, if it’s brought into mainstream politics it will become a party political issue and may well shift public opinion, especially given the current culture war. Politicians, journalists, activists and others who have held these views quietly may be emboldened to launch a new campaign against abortion, LGBT rights or some other issue. I don’t know this would necessarily just be limited to Scotland as Nicola Sturgeon and her policies had a very high profile in the rest of the UK and influenced policy.

Aibu to worry about Kate Forbes becoming SNP leader and first minister?

In very general terms I'll re post the point I made which was deleted.

Some lesbians believe in gender ideology.

Those who believe in gender ideology and support the Gender Bill which is one of the things that Humza Yousaf promotes, believe that lesbians are not limited to single sex attracted females and can include males who identify as lesbian.

Many lesbians reject the new 'genderist' meaning of lesbian as it changes the meaning of the word lesbian and therefore amounts to erasure.

Many lesbians are also concerned that young lesbians are being swept up in gender ideology and harming their bodies by becoming trans men. They consider this to also be homophobic erasure.

This is why I question anyone who denounces KF but not HY when it comes to 'homophobic beliefs'.

HY has lied about his reasons for not attending the final vote on Gay Marriage, this is provable.

KF has said she would have voted against but that she would not let her beliefs prejudice her ability to act as the protector of the law. She has said she has concerns about the gender bill.

I think that accusing KF of homophobia and not worthy of election on the basis of her religious beliefs is a smoke screen for those who want to remove the rights of women and gay people. I do not believe it is coming from an honest position.

Excellent post

Maybe you can pretend Mhairi Black is also not a real woman or a real lesbian?

It seems to be beyond your comprehension that your view is not mainstream within the lesbian community. I acknowledge maybe that's a generational thing - but all of my friends who are lesbian (admittedly mostly under 45) are supportive of trans rights and of trans women. Some of them are not especially bothered either way - but most really resent the ways lesbians are used by transphobes to attack trans women.

And I've not asked them about this specific point - but your repeated minimisation of Kate Forbes homophobia and her belief that I should not be allowed to get married - and your disbelief that I would find that view unacceptable - proves their point.

Why would anyone pretend Mhari Black isn’t a real woman or a real lesbian? She is an actual woman who is attracted to women??? Bizarre thing to say. Suppose material reality means little to you.
Funny I don’t know any lesbian (and I am under 45) who supports trans ideology.

Because you lot seem to have real difficulty conceiving of lesbians who aren't 'gender critical'.

The implication earlier that I might not be a lesbian because I don't agree with transphobia being a good example.

Maybe you can pretend Mhairi Black is also not a real woman or a real lesbian?

Now you're getting silly. Some women do believe in Gender, as do some female lesbians. I haven't claimed that they don't. I don't agree with them and I think they are selling lesbians out and are complicit in lesbian erasure for putting males first.

It seems to be beyond your comprehension that your view is not mainstream within the lesbian community. I acknowledge maybe that's a generational thing - but all of my friends who are lesbian (admittedly mostly under 45) are supportive of trans rights and of trans women. Some of them are not especially bothered either way - but most really resent the ways lesbians are used by transphobes to attack trans women.

Now for the ageism. May come as a shock to you but there is a lot of silent backlash against genderism in my children's generation. They can't talk about it publicly because they might get thrown out of school/ college / doxxed for doing so. Most Lesbians do not believe that lesbians can have penises. They really don't. Lesbians are same SEX attracted. TW who claim lesbian identity are heterosexual males, they are males who are attracted to women. That's not what a homosexual is.

And I've not asked them about this specific point - but your repeated minimisation of Kate Forbes homophobia and her belief that I should not be allowed to get married - and your disbelief that I would find that view unacceptable - proves their point.

Kate won't stop you from getting married. She will uphold the law. What she privately thinks about it is irrelevant to her ability to do a job ! You are literally trying to prevent a woman from getting a job for 'wrong think.'

It is possible to support neither KF or those who support GRR.

Im gc and not homophobic

Easy

@lifeturnsonadime

'Kate won't stop you from getting married.'

Except she would. If she could. That's the issue

No I don’t? I know there are all kinds of people who believe in trans ideology. Doesn’t change their material reality whatever they believe.
The implication earlier was that you aren’t a lesbian because you might not be a female and only females can be lesbians.

You are literally trying to prevent a woman from getting a job for 'wrong think.'

Don't be so bloody daft, TeaKlaxon is doing no such thing. Saying you won't vote for someone or you think they shouldn't be elected is not "literally trying to prevent them from getting a job".

I mean it’s possible that none of us are women. There’s no way to know. But the reason I was specifically speculated about was because I’m a woman who supports trans rights. And that’s just a concept that many transphobes can’t even comprehend.

Well I’m definitely a woman, a natal woman, are you? No one has a problem understanding that some women accept trans ideology. It’s saying things like you have above that make people think you aren’t a woman .

Yes - I am a cisgender woman.

There’s nothing I’ve said above that any other woman who supports trans rights wouldn’t say - especially one whose marriage rights are opposed by KF and who is having to defend why she has a problem with Kate Forbes homophobia.

Oakey doakey. Btw cisgender isn’t real.

I’m a lesbian and I’ve not been erased.

Kate Forbes is unsuited to the job because she believes gay couples are unworthy of the status and protection of marriage.

Also I’ve not said Kate Forbes is transphobic - that is a lie. She is homophobic. I don’t know if she is transphobic but I certainly haven’t claimed she is.

Tea it was a typo I’ve asked for it to deleted . I meant you’d said she was homophobic . Apologies .

I mean sure - why stop at telling the silly little lesbian not to get her knickers in a twist about someone with homophobic views when you can also tell her her gender isn’t real.

When you guys talk about empowering women you really only mean women who agree with you. It’s disgusting.

@TeaKlaxon do you think that males who identify as lesbians are women who are same sex attracted?

Fair enough.

The rest of the post stands - KF isn’t suited to the role of First Minister because she believes I’m not worthy of the status and protection of marriage.

You can minimise that all you like and pretend that I am unreasonable for objecting to someone with those views but you’re not the one who is directly affected by homophobes.

I think trans lesbians are lesbians if that’s what you’re asking.

No I’m asking if you think that males who identify as lesbians and want to date females are ‘Same sex attracted’ or do you think that lesbian means something other than same sex attraction?

Gender is not real. Gender ideology does not empower women. It traps them in outdated notions of what is feminine and masculine. It promotes magical thinking and erases boundaries . None of these things are empowering women.

So I'll take the failure of @TeaKlaxon to respond to whether she thinks that being a lesbian means something other than same sex attraction means that that what she believes. Logic means that she must believe that.

So Tea do you agree with Nancy Kelley that a same sex attracted lesbian who refuses to date a trans woman is a bigot?

Can you really not see how some lesbians see this as erasure? It literally changes everything. Lesbians are no longer exclusively same sex attracted females.

When a voice of authority within Stonewall is calling you a bigot for being same sex attracted it's no wonder that young lesbians have started to identify as men.

That's homophobia and the patriarchy coming together in a way that pushes back lesbian acceptance by decades.

So pardon me for feeling that KF's alleged homophobia / wrong think has not a patch on the homophobia of the erasure of same sex attraction.

twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1630595351076913154

BREAKING: The SNP's leadership race hustings will be held behind closed doors with no public or media access.

KF has asked for them to be live streamed.

Why do the SNP want this to take place behind closed doors? KF clearly has no issue with her views been made public and subject to scrutiny.

The supporters of HY on the other hand..... twitter.com/MhairiHunter/status/1630629950788124673